Single Mention Doctrine

[Valerie]

I actually found it quite scary that you all have equated something being mentioned once, as a basis of it is doctrine.

The rapture is not doctrinal when vast parts of Christianity throughout the ages do not see the rapture as doctrine.

I think we are using doctrine in a colloquial sense of "teaching". I have real questions about the rapture...

My understanding is that the English word 'rapture' is derived from Latin (i.e., from the Latin Vulgate), and that this Latin word is used to translate what some English translations render as 'catching up'. So, do you all believe that there will be a bodily 'catching up' of the saints (both those who have already died, and those still living at that time)?

I believe in the “catching up” described in Scripture but not before the Tribulation (I used to be pre-trib).
I notice there is a lotof rapture talk again lately on social media due to the many earthquakes & other “signs”.

[Neto]

I think we are using doctrine in a colloquial sense of "teaching". I have real questions about the rapture...

My understanding is that the English word 'rapture' is derived from Latin (i.e., from the Latin Vulgate), and that this Latin word is used to translate what some English translations render as 'catching up'. So, do you all believe that there will be a bodily 'catching up' of the saints (both those who have already died, and those still living at that time)?

I believe in the “catching up” described in Scripture but not before the Tribulation (I used to be pre-trib).
I notice there is a lotof rapture talk again lately on social media due to the many earthquakes & other “signs”.

I was also pre-trib. - taught that way. The Scripture taught me different. (I know, I put that plenty strong. )
A fellow Bible translator friend of ours is "pre-wrath". Wrote a book about it. (My understanding now is basically post-trib.) Another WBT missionary (but not a translator) told me that he 'chose' pre-trib in the interrogation we went through to get into Portuguese language school, and said "I hope so."

[Valerie]

Men lifting holy hands in prayer.

Women being saved through child bearing.

Elders anointing the sick with oil.

Confessing sins to one another.

Laying on of hands related to receiving a spiritual gift.

Specific procedure for confronting a sinning brother.

Delivering one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh.

A sin leading to death.

Not receiving false teachers into one's home nor greeting them.

Qualifications for deacons

Qualifications for widows enrolled in the church

Lord's supper examination

The dead being evangelized/preached to

There are many more...

So in looking at this list Neto, would you say the Church at large has a clear understanding of all these. We believe in obey the scripture about head covering as was brought up in the OP. Do we do all the rest of these one scripture things? If not (because I know not all denominations do all of these things) should we criticize other denominations for not doing what we do if we don’t do what they do?

[Neto]

Men lifting holy hands in prayer.

Women being saved through child bearing.

Elders anointing the sick with oil.

Confessing sins to one another.

Laying on of hands related to receiving a spiritual gift.

Specific procedure for confronting a sinning brother.

Delivering one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh.

A sin leading to death.

Not receiving false teachers into one's home nor greeting them.

Qualifications for deacons

Qualifications for widows enrolled in the church

Lord's supper examination

The dead being evangelized/preached to

There are many more...

So in looking at this list Neto, would you say the Church at large has a clear understanding of all these. We believe in obey the scripture about head covering as was brought up in the OP. Do we do all the rest of these one scripture things? If not (because I know not all denominations do all of these things) should we criticize other denominations for not doing what we do if we don’t do what they do?

How is the "women being saved through childbirth" practiced?
Is the laying on of hands one a teaching, or is it just a reported event? (The case of Timothy is the only instance I can think of, and it is not presented there as a teaching, or doctrine.) (But I do often see this done.)
Not inviting false teachers into one's home. - I did this once, that is, I avoided inviting someone into our home who actively opposed the Gospel. Later I wondered if I was right in doing that, in that particular case.
Confessing sins one to another. I do not think there is any suggestion in this that one must do this to be forgiven by God as is the practice in some churches. There are interpretation questions involved as well. I understand it to mean that we should confess sins to the people against whom we have committed them, but generally do not think that it means that all sins should even be confessed publicly at all. (Public sins, perhaps.)
Evangelizing the dead. I'm not aware of any place in Scripture where that is taught. (Handling snakes is not taught either, but I don't think anyone put it in the list, either.)
Self examination at the Lord's Supper - In the I Corinthians passage, I think that the context indicates that the need to "examine oneself to see if one is in the body" (or however it is worded in various translations) refers to how one relates to the other members of the Body of Christ, such as, excluding the poor from one's circle of fellowship during the "Love Feast", and, by application, in all personal interactions or situations.

I think that in my experience, most of the rest are practiced as directed/required.

[Valerie]

Men lifting holy hands in prayer.

Women being saved through child bearing.

Elders anointing the sick with oil.

Confessing sins to one another.

Laying on of hands related to receiving a spiritual gift.

Specific procedure for confronting a sinning brother.

Delivering one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh.

A sin leading to death.

Not receiving false teachers into one's home nor greeting them.

Qualifications for deacons

Qualifications for widows enrolled in the church

Lord's supper examination

The dead being evangelized/preached to

There are many more...

So in looking at this list Neto, would you say the Church at large has a clear understanding of all these. We believe in obey the scripture about head covering as was brought up in the OP. Do we do all the rest of these one scripture things? If not (because I know not all denominations do all of these things) should we criticize other denominations for not doing what we do if we don’t do what they do?

How is the "women being saved through childbirth" practiced?
Is the laying on of hands one a teaching, or is it just a reported event? (The case of Timothy is the only instance I can think of, and it is not presented there as a teaching, or doctrine.) (But I do often see this done.)
Not inviting false teachers into one's home. - I did this once, that is, I avoided inviting someone into our home who actively opposed the Gospel. Later I wondered if I was right in doing that, in that particular case.
Confessing sins one to another. I do not think there is any suggestion in this that one must do this to be forgiven by God as is the practice in some churches. There are interpretation questions involved as well. I understand it to mean that we should confess sins to the people against whom we have committed them, but generally do not think that it means that all sins should even be confessed publicly at all. (Public sins, perhaps.)
Evangelizing the dead. I'm not aware of any place in Scripture where that is taught. (Handling snakes is not taught either, but I don't think anyone put it in the list, either.)
Self examination at the Lord's Supper - In the I Corinthians passage, I think that the context indicates that the need to "examine oneself to see if one is in the body" (or however it is worded in various translations) refers to how one relates to the other members of the Body of Christ, such as, excluding the poor from one's circle of fellowship during the "Love Feast", and, by application, in all personal interactions or situations.

I think that in my experience, most of the rest are practiced as directed/required.

Some of these things, the early church fathers elaborated on so you had a better idea how the early church practiced them. Some of them were mentioned in the Old Testament too like raising your hands. That’s not only mentioned in the New Testament. It’s also mentioned in the Old Testament, the lifting of hands.

[Neto]

[Raising hands was] mentioned in the Old Testament too.... That’s not only mentioned in the New Testament. It’s also mentioned in the Old Testament, the lifting of hands.

I confess that I do not do this as much publicly as I used to. When you are told to do it by someone up front, it feels rather weird to do it, like you're being pressured to do it, rather than as a genuine expression. Maybe I shouldn't feel that way, but no one ever expects that people kneel or bow down when the songs says that. Why not? (I have at times knelt during singing, but we - my wife and I, and many of those in our age group - don't stand to sing any more. The stage people want everyone to stand for the entire 20 minutes or so, and that's just too much. Makes for back pain.)

[Ernie]

[Raising hands was] mentioned in the Old Testament too.... That’s not only mentioned in the New Testament. It’s also mentioned in the Old Testament, the lifting of hands.

I confess that I do not do this as much publicly as I used to. When you are told to do it by someone up front, it feels rather weird to do it, like you're being pressured to do it, rather than as a genuine expression. Maybe I shouldn't feel that way, but no one ever expects that people kneel or bow down when the songs says that. Why not? (I have at times knelt during singing, but we - my wife and I, and many of those in our age group - don't stand to sing any more. The stage people want everyone to stand for the entire 20 minutes or so, and that's just too much. Makes for back pain.)

What about the person up front saying let's all stand for prayer?

I put commands such as head-covering, lifting holy hands, holy kiss, hospitality, anointing with oil, foot washing, etc. in the same general category.

If someone up front announces that it is time to do each of the above, do you feel the same way? Should the practice of these things be only self-determined or is it ok for churches to have general practices for each of these things, while allowing for them to also be practiced personally at times outside of the general church practice?

FWIW
Women are instructed to cover their heads when they pray and men are instructed to lift their hands.
Some people aren't sure if Paul was teaching a literal headcovering. If in doubt, they can look at the practice of the early church.
Some people aren't sure if Paul was teaching a literal lifting of hands in prayer. If in doubt, they can look at the practice of the early church.

[Valerie]

[Raising hands was] mentioned in the Old Testament too.... That’s not only mentioned in the New Testament. It’s also mentioned in the Old Testament, the lifting of hands.

I confess that I do not do this as much publicly as I used to. When you are told to do it by someone up front, it feels rather weird to do it, like you're being pressured to do it, rather than as a genuine expression. Maybe I shouldn't feel that way, but no one ever expects that people kneel or bow down when the songs says that. Why not? (I have at times knelt during singing, but we - my wife and I, and many of those in our age group - don't stand to sing any more. The stage people want everyone to stand for the entire 20 minutes or so, and that's just too much. Makes for back pain.)

What about the person up front saying let's all stand for prayer?

I put commands such as head-covering, lifting holy hands, holy kiss, hospitality, anointing with oil, foot washing, etc. in the same general category.

If someone up front announces that it is time to do each of the above, do you feel the same way? Should the practice of these things be only self-determined or is it ok for churches to have general practices for each of these things, while allowing for them to also be practiced personally at times outside of the general church practice?

FWIW
Women are instructed to cover their heads when they pray and men are instructed to lift their hands.
Some people aren't sure if Paul was teaching a literal headcovering. If in doubt, they can look at the practice of the early church.
Some people aren't sure if Paul was teaching a literal lifting of hands in prayer. If in doubt, they can look at the practice of the early church.

You can see illustrations on the walls of the catacombs where women both covered their heads with a veil AND were lifting their hands in prayer- pictures tell the story and practice of early church.

[barnhart]

Some people aren't sure if Paul was teaching a literal headcovering. If in doubt, they can look at the practice of the early church.

Or the practice of the global church for 2,000 years. It's only in the last 150 years this has been abandoned.

[Ernie]

Having lived in the Plain Anabaptist world all of my life, it is usual for conversations to quickly go to this when talking about girls or women who decide to follow Jesus.

"Is she wearing a covering?"

I have never once heard it asked, "Has he started lifting his hands?"