Fraud Throughout Driving Schools

[temporal1]

I think it's a bigger issue than it might seem like at first glance. Putting aside the fact that they are here illegally and yet somehow obtain not just a drivers license but a CDL boggles my mind. Do you know all the time, money, and effort that goes into obtaining a CDL? In my state, a few years ago, legislation passed that applicants need to go to college to obtain a CDL. If all immigrants have to jump thru the same hoops I do wonder how that's even possible.

I agree. The only way immigrants who can't read English, can acquire a CDL, is by cheating.

As with other FRAUD and waste, i’m hoping for TOP-DOWN accountability. The drivers are on the bottom, they didn’t get there alone. Who are the enablers and directors getting them there?!

Not to give those on the bottom a pass. TOP-DOWN. All of it.

[ken_sylvania]

If the rates of incident mirror all other drivers than it is a traffic safety issue, not an immigration issue.

Legitimate CDL drivers go through a battery of hard tests. They need a physical every two years, and depending what meds they might be on, they must have one every year. Yet we are seeing illegal immigrants being granted CDL licenses, who can't read English! I find that unconscionable and nothing to joke about.

I don't know what is actually happening but I'm not nearly as convinced English proficiency is that important for truck drivers. Plenty of English speakers drive into Mexico on a regular basis and there doesn't seem to be an emergency. I live in an area where many, possibly most Uber and truck drivers have limited English proficiency and yet we survive.

I think it's a bigger issue than it might seem like at first glance. Putting aside the fact that they are here illegally and yet somehow obtain not just a drivers license but a CDL boggles my mind. Do you know all the time, money, and effort that goes into obtaining a CDL? In my state, a few years ago, legislation passed that applicants need to go to college to obtain a CDL. If all immigrants have to jump thru the same hoops I do wonder how that's even possible. But I digress.
I live less than 2 miles from an interstate. I've observed a few things over the years. First, I am amazed how many accidents happen in the same stretch of highway. I would estimate every week in a 20 mile stretch often involving commercial vehicles. Secondly, most truck drivers seem unable to read basic roads signs. There's always an endless amount of road construction, bridges being replaced, etc. Trucks are regulated to using a particular lane. Most trucks seem to either ignore it, don't see it, or can't read. Thirdly, where construction happens, accidents happen.
I think it's fair to point out that traffic on the interstate is different from NYC or Mexico.
One difference I assume is speed. Most interstates around here seem to have a 70 mile per hour speed limit and many folks exceed that by 10 miles per hour or more. That makes accident more dangerous, especially commercial vehicles considering the added weight. In construction zones speed slows or stops and even with warning signs rear end collisions seem inevitable. I've seem multiple accidents where lanes split. It's unfathomable to me how you can roll a semi in the middle of the road with lowered speed limits. However, if you can't read English, it's dark outside, and your lane disappears that might cause you to crash out.
Driving American roads without knowing English with a regular license seems dangerous enough. Allowing non-English speakers to obtain CDL seems reckless. Obtaining a drivers license is a privilege, not a right. It's not a basic human need like food. There are alternatives. Safer roads should take priority over whatever is driving the desire to give drivers license to folks that aren't qualified.

I tend to agree.
There is also the aspect of the cultural expectation of how to drive. For instance, Americans who spend time in Haiti or Liberia sometimes come back and are terrible, scary drivers until they re-learn how to drive. They got used to an aggressive, dangerous style of driving. And when people who are used to driving truck like they do in India or Pakistan drive that way on US roads, sooner or later there's going to be an accident. It's one thing to get mixed up on the detour and drive a car into a narrow winding country road - it's quite another to do the same with a loaded 53' trailer.
That being said, immigrants don't have some kind a monopoly on stupid driving stunts. Plenty of white, English-speaking Americans drive every day like as if they have a death wish.

[temporal1]

.. That being said, immigrants don't have some kind a monopoly on stupid driving stunts. Plenty of white, English-speaking Americans drive every day like as if they have a death wish.

It’s not either-or.
Measures are taken to identify repeated problems, then to prevent incidents.
For instance, insurance for young drivers is higher than for those (i think) after age 25; young males pay more than young females; repeated incidents will cost more, eventually, insurance is not possble. Older drivers face simlar scrutiny and penalties.

i see nothing out of order in identifying a problem then responding to it in specific ways intended to reduce/eliminate the problem.
It’s done routinely. Why pretend it’s not?

However, in my view, “illegal” is the operative word wrt CDL or professional licensing-jobs.
Even if “illegal” translates into The World’s Best Drivers.
i don’t need statistics. No. Not eligible for training, licensing, employment.

As long as rewards/benefits are offered for people to arrive illegally, there will be no end to it.
Human Nature 101

P.3

sojourner:
.. Obtaining a drivers license is a privilege, not a right.
It's not a basic human need like food. There are alternatives.

Safer roads should take priority over whatever is driving the desire to give drivers license to folks that aren't qualified.

o.boy.
my father+brothers did auto body repair. i heard about this factoid more times than i could count.

[JohnH]

Question for Barnhart:

Do you think commercial drivers should follow applicable laws when acquiring and maintaining their driver licence?

The stated rules for a CDL is that English proficiency is required, so regardless of your opinion on whether that’s a good rule,
Im wondering what your opinion on commercial drivers who are evading the rules for training and licensure is.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I do not know how CDL licenses work but do know if someone has a regular driver's license from another country they can use it legally in the US. Is this true for CDLs?

That period is limited to 6 months to 12 months on a tourist visa, 30 days after you are granted residency. Don’t think it applies to CDLs. Used to work with Chinese grad students.

[barnhart]

Is there no end to the things that are blamed on immigrants. Here are some just off the top of my head in the last couple of years here on mennonet.
1. Housing costs
2. Rising health care costs
3. Eating of pets
4. Rape and other sexual violence
5. Various violent crimes
6. Traffic deaths
7. Human trafficking
8. Fentanyl
9. Fraud
10. Disease

[JohnH]

Is there no end to the things that are blamed on immigrants. Here are some just off the top of my head in the last couple of years here on mennonet.
1. Housing costs
2. Rising health care costs
3. Eating of pets
4. Rape and other sexual violence
5. Various violent crimes
6. Traffic deaths
7. Human trafficking
8. Fentanyl
9. Fraud
10. Disease

Instead of that (and without assigning blame), why not just focus on whether or not it’s OK to have people driving commercially, holding CDLs, who don’t have English proficiency?

The reason I ask you this is because it’s been required for a long time, at the federal level, for anyone with a CDL to have English proficiency. Whether or not this is a good policy is a separate question, but when someone is a commercial driver who has a significant accident and has poor English proficiency, there is an obvious question about whether or not their CDL was obtained legitimately.

I think we should discuss that, although if you want to jump into the accident statistics of foreigners driving commercially, I suppose we could.

[Valerie]

I think it's a bigger issue than it might seem like at first glance. Putting aside the fact that they are here illegally and yet somehow obtain not just a drivers license but a CDL boggles my mind. Do you know all the time, money, and effort that goes into obtaining a CDL? In my state, a few years ago, legislation passed that applicants need to go to college to obtain a CDL. If all immigrants have to jump thru the same hoops I do wonder how that's even possible.

I agree. The only way immigrants who can't read English, can acquire a CDL, is by cheating.

Which boggles my mind it’s defended on a Christian discussion forum where one would think obedience to law would be important, especially when lives are at risk.

[ohio jones]

Instead of that (and without assigning blame), why not just focus on whether or not it’s OK to have people driving commercially, holding CDLs, who don’t have English proficiency?

That seems like a reasonable question to discuss.

But starting with the first paragraph of the OP, there seems to be a presumption that people who can't speak English are illegal immigrants. While there is some overlap, they are two separate categories. There are citizens and legal immigrants who have difficulty with English. There are illegal immigrants whose command of the language is excellent and would not be disqualified from a CDL on that basis.

[barnhart]

Which boggles my mind it’s defended on a Christian discussion forum where one would think obedience to law would be important, especially when lives are at risk.

I don't defend lawlessness and there likely is fraud involved which should be addressed. What I am challenging is the rising tide of xenophobia and fear mongering being used to manipulate emotion and empower political movements. Xenophobia does not become something else if you hide behind legalities. I challenge this on a Christian forum because it is anti- Christian and I believe the church is responsible for itself much more than the policies and attitudes of the world. I don't vote so in a real sense I am not directly challenging the president and his media empires but the church is my realm of responsibility.

The sad fact is this movement of suspicion and blame shifting is actually promoted, supported, defended and embraced primarily by Christians and their pet media. It's hard to communicate the shame I feel about this. The American church is trading a birthright for some soup of temporary political alliance.

"Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. Even though he sought the blessing with tears, he could not change what he had done..."
-Hebrews 12:17