Clothing and Lust

[Grace]

When Jesus talked about lust, He never once even got close to suggesting that immodesty was the culprit.

There are many things Jesus didn't talk about. Are we going to base something on what Jesus DID NOT say. Jesus didn't talk about homosexuality either. And the reason he didn't was because He was talking to the Jews. The Jews viewed homosexuality as a crime, punishable by death. So, the Jews didn't have that problem at the time Jesus walked this earth. When Paul preached against homosexuality he was preaching to the Gentiles, who were really messed up when it came to homosexuality. Jesus may not have spoken about the correlation between immodest clothing and lust, because it wasn't an issue with the Jews at that time.

[mike]

The Bible doesn't explicitly say women should dress modestly so that men don't get tempted to lust. This is what the NT says.

In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 1 Timothy 2:9–10

Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart…” 1 Peter 3:3–4

Women should dress modestly because scripture instructs it. The benefits of following biblical teaching on dress (and every other area of life) have many good associated results, and perhaps not presenting unnecessary distractions or temptations to others is one of them, but in my opinion it is more of a corollary or natural consequence than a primary reason necessarily.

In the garden of Eden, God covered Adam and Eve. There was no reason to dress modestly in order to keep the other human from lusting - they were husband and wife and the only human beings on the earth. There was a deeper reason, and that is the principle behind clothing, in the Christian view.

[Soloist]

I know a lot of Anabaptists would prefer to not be placed in the “over sexualization” category alongside Hollywood.

But from where I sit, when we are teaching little girls to cover up a certain way in order to help their “brothers”, we are sexualizing them.

Boys don’t get this same treatment; which says a lot.

Boys should. I know of men who are tempted to lust whenever men are not dressed appropriately.

Boys aren’t told to protect their sisters. Boys are not constantly harassed about their clothing.

Wife: This is a vast overgeneralization. I am really sorry that a lot of cultures or individuals do promote it the way that you’re talking about, but there are standards for boys at our church too, like not too tight shirts or wearing shorts, just to name a few. Nothing ever ever ever justifies abuse, but not every individual that believes in modesty promotes it inconsistently or doesn’t promote it for males.


We certainly have had plenty of talks about how big brother is the protector, and I have heard it from individuals and from the pulpit. I mean, no one is going to pull out a gun or beat someone up, but respect for women is at least taught at the churches that I’ve gone to and they also chaperone the ladies at street meetings, and help with the dishes/cleanup, and sometimes have all the men and children make food for Mother’s Day.

Is it possible that this can be representative of some groups or individuals/families without being representative of all of them? I mean, there are bad eggs in every Church that I have ever been in from Mainstream to Mennonite, but there are a lot of people that reject that sort of behavior.

[Ernie]

“Easier?”

This is maybe wording it better.

But why would it not be appropriate to dress in a way that makes it easier for some men—not all men—to avoid being unnecessarily tempted to lust?

It is extremely confusing for girls when we are told that God made our bodies good, but simultaneously told that are bodies are tempting to men. Especially when James says that God does not tempt anyone, and that man is tempted when he is drawn away by his OWN LUST.

Girls do not need to be told this. They will experience this at some point in life without any teaching. Many ladies have wished someone would have told them. Why not give them a heads up at some point so they don't need to find out the hard way by experience?

Thank you for admitting in that last paragraph that girls/women are sexualized regularly in the church.

Earlier in this conversation, someone didn’t like that I put Hollywood and conservative Christian culture in the same box.

I did not admit that. I don't appreciate when people try the "gotcha thing" and put words in other people's mouths. I think there are some forum rules about this.

That aside, I was referring to people who grew up in a non-Christian culture, who were taken advantage of in a non-Christian culture, and learned the hard way. They have expressed that they wished they would have had someone teach them about the effect their lack of clothing had on people around them.

[Ernie]

Women should dress modestly because scripture instructs it. The benefits of following biblical teaching on dress (and every other area of life) have many good associated results, and perhaps not presenting unnecessary distractions or temptations to others is one of them, but in my opinion it is more of a corollary or natural consequence than a primary reason necessarily.

Exactly. I don't believe that God's commands are arbitrary. They are loving, logical limits that God gives us for our own flourishing as humans. Those who cheerfully submit to those commands get blessed in all sorts of ways.

[Neto]

I know a lot of Anabaptists would prefer to not be placed in the “over sexualization” category alongside Hollywood.

But from where I sit, when we are teaching little girls to cover up a certain way in order to help their “brothers”, we are sexualizing them.

Boys don’t get this same treatment; which says a lot.

I would say that I did. Not only in the anabaptist congregation where I grew up, but also at home. Later, in a non-Mennonite Bible college, a female friend asked me to stop wearing a certain pair of pants I had. And I did it. (Incidentally, that was the first time I felt that I was 'attractive' to a woman, but I did ditch those pants. I think that while it may be true to some extent - perhaps markedly less so than for men - at least some women are visually 'triggered' by the way some men dress.)

[anndet92]

This is maybe wording it better.

But why would it not be appropriate to dress in a way that makes it easier for some men—not all men—to avoid being unnecessarily tempted to lust?


Girls do not need to be told this. They will experience this at some point in life without any teaching. Many ladies have wished someone would have told them. Why not give them a heads up at some point so they don't need to find out the hard way by experience?

Thank you for admitting in that last paragraph that girls/women are sexualized regularly in the church.

Earlier in this conversation, someone didn’t like that I put Hollywood and conservative Christian culture in the same box.

I did not admit that. I don't appreciate when people try the "gotcha thing" and put words in other people's mouths. I think there are some forum rules about this.

That aside, I was referring to people who grew up in a non-Christian culture, who were taken advantage of in a non-Christian culture, and learned the hard way. They have expressed that they wished they would have had someone teach them about the effect their lack of clothing had on people around them.

I apologize for assuming you were talking about all women.

May I express the other side?

I grew up in the very circles that promote this idea that modesty helps men not lust, and I wish that modesty and lust had been too separate conversations.

It left me with extreme anxiety, rape, and self hatred.

I would like to see something different for future generations of Anabaptist girls.

[Neto]

I know a lot of Anabaptists would prefer to not be placed in the “over sexualization” category alongside Hollywood.

But from where I sit, when we are teaching little girls to cover up a certain way in order to help their “brothers”, we are sexualizing them.

Boys don’t get this same treatment; which says a lot.

Boys should. I know of men who are tempted to lust whenever men are not dressed appropriately.

Boys aren’t told to protect their sisters. Boys are not constantly harassed about their clothing.

I am thankful that it isn't like that everywhere. I was taught to do all I can to protect not only my own sister (by birth), but also my Christian sisters, and to respect all girls and women. I can barely even imagine a church setting where that doesn't happen.

[Grace]

But don’t be surprised when the girls/boys are raped by church members, and eventually walk away from church and God.

I find saying that Ernie’s way of thinking will bring on adult church members raping children a very extreme and disturbing comment.

[JohnH]

I know a lot of Anabaptists would prefer to not be placed in the “over sexualization” category alongside Hollywood.

But from where I sit, when we are teaching little girls to cover up a certain way in order to help their “brothers”, we are sexualizing them.

Boys don’t get this same treatment; which says a lot.

Boys should. I know of men who are tempted to lust whenever men are not dressed appropriately.

Boys aren’t told to protect their sisters. Boys are not constantly harassed about their clothing.

I can think of situations where boys should have been taught to protect their sisters by, for example, making sure they’re wearing pants in public.