Biblical Mennonite Alliance and credential removal of past abusers

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Grace
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Re: Biblical Mennonite Alliance and credential removal of past abusers

Post by Grace »

anndet92 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2026 9:06 am
Grace wrote: ↑Tue Aug 25, 2026 10:29 pm
JohnH wrote: ↑Tue Aug 25, 2026 7:01 pm

Trudy doesn't move at lightning speed. Never has. I am not concerned at all.

She moves when she knows she's got a rock-solid position.
It sure did not take her very long to attempt to smear Amos Raber.
Amos Raber showed humility by admitting he made a mistake. He was not smeared - unless one believes being called out is an automatic smear campaign.

There are people who aren’t abusers who, either knowingly or unknowingly, cover for them. Abusers need those people. Calling out those people is not wrong; it’s needed.

How they respond to being called out says a lot about them and their integrity (or lack thereof).

I think Amos passed that test.
Why call someone out, before getting that person's side of the story first? She apparently didn't do that, and in her haste to post his mistake, before getting his side of the story, was a smear. Thankfully he responded in a humble manner.

So now Trudy is the ultimate "test giver" ? Wow, the absolute power to accuse, find guilty, and punish a person.
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ken_sylvania
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Re: Biblical Mennonite Alliance and credential removal of past abusers

Post by ken_sylvania »

Grace wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2026 9:27 am
anndet92 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2026 9:06 am
Grace wrote: ↑Tue Aug 25, 2026 10:29 pm

It sure did not take her very long to attempt to smear Amos Raber.
Amos Raber showed humility by admitting he made a mistake. He was not smeared - unless one believes being called out is an automatic smear campaign.

There are people who aren’t abusers who, either knowingly or unknowingly, cover for them. Abusers need those people. Calling out those people is not wrong; it’s needed.

How they respond to being called out says a lot about them and their integrity (or lack thereof).

I think Amos passed that test.
Why call someone out, before getting that person's side of the story first? She apparently didn't do that, and in her haste to post his mistake, before getting his side of the story, was a smear. Thankfully he responded in a humble manner.

So now Trudy is the ultimate "test giver" ? Wow, the absolute power to accuse, find guilty, and punish a person.
Why are you engaging in a smearing Trudy? That is, according to your own definition of what "smearing" is.

Look, I don't agree with everything Trudy does or with some of the conclusions she draws, but she does have integrity.

I don't know what she said about Amos Raber that you think was a smear, but as far as I know Amos is not claiming that she said anything false about him.
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JohnH
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Re: Biblical Mennonite Alliance and credential removal of past abusers

Post by JohnH »

anndet92 has a point.

When we have principals/teachers of conservative Mennonite schools, pastors, elders, and so forth who claim complete ignorance of the fact these things might be wrong:

- grabbing a girl’s rear end, brushing against it, and so forth during one’s teaching duties or between classes in the hallway
- having a girl who is not a close relative sit on one’s lap during pastoral counselling
- giving neck massages, or massages in other places, to a girl who isn’t a relative
- giving back rubs in a likewise fashion (to a girl who is asleep)
- the above, except with young boys who aren’t a relative

then the messages about modesty do ring a bit hollow.

I personally think modest attire is important but that extends to it being improper to grab / touch those places that are being concealed.

I harbour suspicions that the men who claimed they didn’t know the above actually did know and are “playing dumb”. I wonder what they would have said if a young dating couple in their church, or two students, had been engaging in that sort of grabbing, brushing, touching, groping, and massaging?
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Biblical Mennonite Alliance and credential removal of past abusers

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

JohnH wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2026 12:14 pm anndet92 has a point.

When we have principals/teachers of conservative Mennonite schools, pastors, elders, and so forth who claim complete ignorance of the fact these things might be wrong:

- grabbing a girl’s rear end, brushing against it, and so forth during one’s teaching duties or between classes in the hallway
- having a girl who is not a close relative sit on one’s lap during pastoral counselling
- giving neck massages, or massages in other places, to a girl who isn’t a relative
- giving back rubs in a likewise fashion (to a girl who is asleep)
- the above, except with young boys who aren’t a relative

then the messages about modesty do ring a bit hollow.

I personally think modest attire is important but that extends to it being improper to grab / touch those places that are being concealed.

I harbour suspicions that the men who claimed they didn’t know the above actually did know and are “playing dumb”. I wonder what they would have said if a young dating couple in their church, or two students, had been engaging in that sort of grabbing, brushing, touching, groping, and massaging?
This kind of behavior is such that if I saw it, whoever was doing it would be gone, no warning necessary. If a student doing it to another student, a warning would be appropriate. One warning.

Otherwise they would need to replace me.

No one on our school board would tolerate this, full stop.
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JohnH
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Re: Biblical Mennonite Alliance and credential removal of past abusers

Post by JohnH »

Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2026 2:21 pm This kind of behavior is such that if I saw it, whoever was doing it would be gone, no warning necessary. If a student doing it to another student, a warning would be appropriate. One warning.

Otherwise they would need to replace me.

No one on our school board would tolerate this, full stop.
The person with this behaviour (referenced in the line about a school) was variously on the school board or else the head teacher / principal.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Biblical Mennonite Alliance and credential removal of past abusers

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

JohnH wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2026 2:28 pm
Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2026 2:21 pm This kind of behavior is such that if I saw it, whoever was doing it would be gone, no warning necessary. If a student doing it to another student, a warning would be appropriate. One warning.

Otherwise they would need to replace me.

No one on our school board would tolerate this, full stop.
The person with this behaviour (referenced in the line about a school) was variously on the school board or else the head teacher / principal.
If I saw it, it would be him or me. Sometimes that is the only way to get the issue resolved.
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Soloist
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Re: Biblical Mennonite Alliance and credential removal of past abusers

Post by Soloist »

Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2026 2:21 pm This kind of behavior is such that if I saw it, whoever was doing it would be gone, no warning necessary. If a student doing it to another student, a warning would be appropriate. One warning.

Otherwise they would need to replace me.

No one on our school board would tolerate this, full stop.
I’m curious, how would you address your own children?
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barnhart
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Re: Biblical Mennonite Alliance and credential removal of past abusers

Post by barnhart »

Soloist wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2026 3:23 pm
Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2026 2:21 pm This kind of behavior is such that if I saw it, whoever was doing it would be gone, no warning necessary. If a student doing it to another student, a warning would be appropriate. One warning.

Otherwise they would need to replace me.

No one on our school board would tolerate this, full stop.
I’m curious, how would you address your own children?
I think at the root of this question is the implication that if you truly love someone, you will make exceptions or cover over their sin. I would hope to engage with love regardless the perpetrator but at the same time I think JM is on the high road.
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Soloist
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Re: Biblical Mennonite Alliance and credential removal of past abusers

Post by Soloist »

barnhart wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2026 3:27 pm
Soloist wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2026 3:23 pm
Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2026 2:21 pm This kind of behavior is such that if I saw it, whoever was doing it would be gone, no warning necessary. If a student doing it to another student, a warning would be appropriate. One warning.

Otherwise they would need to replace me.

No one on our school board would tolerate this, full stop.
I’m curious, how would you address your own children?
I think at the root of this question is the implication that if you truly love someone, you will make exceptions or cover over their sin. I would hope to engage with love regardless the perpetrator but at the same time I think JM is on the high road.
No, it’s a practical question. Generally speaking, if you’re saying one strike, then you’re done that means kicked out of the school. I’m asking him how he would do that with his children
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Biblical Mennonite Alliance and credential removal of past abusers

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Soloist wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2026 4:22 pm
barnhart wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2026 3:27 pm
Soloist wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2026 3:23 pm

I’m curious, how would you address your own children?
I think at the root of this question is the implication that if you truly love someone, you will make exceptions or cover over their sin. I would hope to engage with love regardless the perpetrator but at the same time I think JM is on the high road.
No, it’s a practical question. Generally speaking, if you’re saying one strike, then you’re done that means kicked out of the school. I’m asking him how he would do that with his children
I would endeavour to get the child help, in a context where the sin can be corrected rather than minimized. There would be no way that child could attend that school until there was assurance that the problem would not recur. If that assurance could not be achieved, maybe never. Independent schooling is a possibility.
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