Biblical Mennonite Alliance and credential removal of past abusers

[Judas Maccabeus]

Is this known fact or just wild speculation?

“If the Feds charge someone with serious charges, they could face serious charges.”

So far nobody’s even said what Eicher did or didn’t do, beyond insufficient grocery shopping. I’m not downplaying anything, but there’s a notable lack of information.

That information is readily available on FB. Reference the official communication from BMA that's been posted online. It's speculation on whether or not the federal authorities pursue charges, not speculation that abuse occurred. The crimes have definitely been reported so it's a waiting to see if they choose to move the case forward.

You believe what you read on Facebook? Really?

[JohnH]

I wouldn't expect that to be updated immediately, perhaps not until a successor is named, which could take some time.

Is that common? I would have thought that it would be updated with "interim moderator" or something like that.

I didn't realize the resignations were back in March rather than more recent. There might or might not have been an interim, but I expect a moderator has been appointed at the recent convention. The "moderator@" email from the contact page probably goes to the right person.

I don't get the impression that website updates are a priority; the congregational directory includes at least one church that has not been part of the alliance for well over a year.

I would assume these kind of announcements get made in The Alliance Newsletter. As I'm not a subscriber, I couldn't say.

[GelassenheitBnksi]

“If the Feds charge someone with serious charges, they could face serious charges.”

So far nobody’s even said what Eicher did or didn’t do, beyond insufficient grocery shopping. I’m not downplaying anything, but there’s a notable lack of information.

That information is readily available on FB. Reference the official communication from BMA that's been posted online. It's speculation on whether or not the federal authorities pursue charges, not speculation that abuse occurred. The crimes have definitely been reported so it's a waiting to see if they choose to move the case forward.

You believe what you read on Facebook? Really?

Rarely. However, the BMA email posted on FB in which Eicher's crimes were described has been confirmed as accurate from a minister in BMA who received the official communication several weeks prior. I have a high level of confidence in its accuracy.

[I Timothy]

That information is readily available on FB. Reference the official communication from BMA that's been posted online. It's speculation on whether or not the federal authorities pursue charges, not speculation that abuse occurred. The crimes have definitely been reported so it's a waiting to see if they choose to move the case forward.

You believe what you read on Facebook? Really?

Rarely. However, the BMA email posted on FB in which Eicher's crimes were described has been confirmed as accurate from a minister in BMA who received the official communication several weeks prior. I have a high level of confidence in its accuracy.

The question might also be who the feds might pursue?

It might not be just the offenders. If executives knew and did nothing, they could also have liability. Remember BMA gave the orphanage a clean bill of health and then the children were removed by Mexican authorities for abuse and neglect. BMA leadership had reports on wrongdoing dating to 2021.

Jason Groff, who was chairman of the policy body, also resigned around the same time as Horst. Why?

FB is just the beginning, and Eicher the distraction.

The former staff also should be remembered. Some of these young people were subjected to frightening and traumatic situations while serving. Has BMA established a care team for them? Have they been offered independent counseling and a safe way to tell their stories without fear of BMA reprisal?

Staff stories will eventually be heard. BMA still has an opportunity to demonstrate that protecting vulnerable children, caring for former staff, and establishing truth come before protecting the institution.

We have lived the painful lessons from CAM and NYP histories. Those lessons should make everyone more determined not to repeat them.

[Grace]

We have lived the painful lessons from CAM and NYP histories. Those lessons should make everyone more determined not to repeat them.

NYP...Northern Youth Programs? I never heard anything negative about them.

[Ernie]

We have lived the painful lessons from CAM and NYP histories. Those lessons should make everyone more determined not to repeat them.

NYP...Northern Youth Programs? I never heard anything negative about them.

https://anabaptistworld.org/canadian-na ... -journeys/

[JohnH]

The question might also be who the feds might pursue?

It might not be just the offenders. If executives knew and did nothing, they could also have liability. Remember BMA gave the orphanage a clean bill of health and then the children were removed by Mexican authorities for abuse and neglect. BMA leadership had reports on wrongdoing dating to 2021.

The likelihood of a federal indictment (let alone a conviction) on the above is about zero, although I'd be interested to hear your legal opinion about where, exactly, a crime has occurred because "BMA" (are you expecting BMA to be criminally prosecuted?) gave a "clean bill of health" and then some foreign government decides there is a problem.

I notice your affiliation says "BMA". Perhaps, in your imagination, you're responsible too, but I'm starting to think you don't have a very strong understanding of how organisations work from a legal perspective.

[flyingnorm]

@ernie thanks for sharing that link. I was wondering where to start in replying to Grace. We have been talking about this in our newsletters for the last few years. Gatherings led by former students have been helpful by allowing us to hear what it was like to be a student in the residential schools in the 60s to 1991, when the schools closed. The TRC investigations documented the abuses, the student stories confirm the abuses, the staff stories corroborated the student stories. The abuses were institutional and administrative in nature. The institutions needed to end, and were ended in 1991. The pain and trauma continues today. Some find healing, some do not.

This thread has been significant for me as there is so much overlap between the LOH story and the Indian residential schools story. Both have connections to Gothard’s teachings, both have a hardcore approach to missions, both have fearless and untouchable leaders at the helm with rather extremist views on submission, family values, with larger than life ministry image and a trail of people with tears and questions along with a trail of diehard fans and imitators who protect and prop them up.

The underpinning of the whole saga is a lack of being able to hear the people we are serving. They matter, a lot more than our supposed ministry vision or methods. Christ didn’t call us to fix all the social problems in society. He told us to love the Lord and our neighbor as ourselves. Institutionalizing abuse is not loving our neighbor or the Lord.

[I Timothy]

The question might also be who the feds might pursue?

It might not be just the offenders. If executives knew and did nothing, they could also have liability. Remember BMA gave the orphanage a clean bill of health and then the children were removed by Mexican authorities for abuse and neglect. BMA leadership had reports on wrongdoing dating to 2021.

The likelihood of a federal indictment (let alone a conviction) on the above is about zero, although I'd be interested to hear your legal opinion about where, exactly, a crime has occurred because "BMA" (are you expecting BMA to be criminally prosecuted?) gave a "clean bill of health" and then some foreign government decides there is a problem.

I notice your affiliation says "BMA". Perhaps, in your imagination, you're responsible too, but I'm starting to think you don't have a very strong understanding of how organisations work from a legal perspective.

Johnh is right, the fact BMA gave the orphanage a clean bill of health is not criminal, and I didn't intend to suggest that simply belonging to BMA creates criminal liability.

The relevant question is what specific individuals knew, what responsibilities they had, and what they did (or didn't do) after receiving reports. If leadership received reports of wrongdoing in 2021, then the chronology matters considerably. Were allegations that involved children reported immediately to the appropriate authorities? Were records maintained and evidence preserved? Did anyone discourage reporting, interfere with investigators, or make false representations? These are questions that need answers before anyone can predict criminal liability.

I'll withdraw the suggestion that federal indictments follow from what has been publicly shared. My larger point is that 1) an organization says that everything was fine, 2) Mexican authorities remove the children amid abuse and neglect concerns, 3) leadership had reportedly been receiving concerns for years.

This timeline warrants an independent examination. Who knew what and when? And what did they do with what they knew?

Leadership resigning during this time opens the door for more questions.

Being affiliated with BMA doesn't make me criminally responsible for somebody else's conduct. I think we both know that.

[Grace]

We have lived the painful lessons from CAM and NYP histories. Those lessons should make everyone more determined not to repeat them.

NYP...Northern Youth Programs? I never heard anything negative about them.

https://anabaptistworld.org/canadian-na ... -journeys/

Thanks Ernie. I was unaware of that.