Biblical Mennonite Alliance and credential removal of past abusers

[joshuabgood]

There is a danger in "over credentialism" and also a danger in over confidence in "credentialism." I have seen that in the secular world after 14 years or so in NYCDOE in the role of teacher, principal, and asst supt.

There is also a danger, and some would say present in our community, of over confidence in thinking bc we are Anabaptist we can succeed by virtue of "who we are" in paths that are extremely difficult...ie raising emotionally traumatized, other peoples, children -- with well meaning beginning of adulthood folks with limited training/experience giving, 2 year cycles.

Because we are Anabaptist doesn't make us automatically equipped, or equipped in a better way, than others. Perhaps we aren't as strong as we think we are...in the words of Rich Mullins. When I grew up, I had the underlying perspective that we (my community) were better workers, better students/teachers, better at scriptural exegesis, better theologians, etc than "the world." It wasn't that long in an "outside context" that I figured out my mental model needed shifting.

Child residential programs of any sort pose difficult challenges. Cross cultural residential programs are extremely complex...as our past efforts to this end have shown in the CA mission construct.

[JohnH]

The only thing that would satisfy them is the disappearance of the conservative Anabaptist movement. There is clearly an ax to grind here.

This is probably true of some of them. It is certainly not true of many of them. The only ax that many of them have to grind is the safety of children and other vulnerable people. False sweeping statements are unhelpful.

I would not call myself an "abuse advocate," but as a committed conservative Anabaptist I have intersected with that world at various points. While I do not necessarily agree with or endorse every statement or action from every abuse advocate, I generally find their concerns valid and their suggestions worthy of our respect and consideration, at the very least. I am absolutely convinced that there is far greater danger in fighting them than in listening to them.

I consider myself an abuse advocate too.

I am not interested in hearing from them about how we need to change our church groups to a rigid, high control, top down episcopal / conference structure.

[barnhart]

That is the question that it seems 1Timothy is asking. WHY aren't orphanages a highly regulated environment? If LOH would have staff with proper training in caring for mentally handicapped, severely traumatized and emotionally damaged children and young adults then maybe cover ups of abuse would not be the discussion. In the US staff would need training in medi administration, behavioral redirection and safety courses before working in group homes as well as have medical professionals and behavioral specialists heavily involved in their care plans. If something isn't working in this 'real world' you speak of, maybe its time to step back and make some adjustments so vulnerable children and naive young caregivers aren't abused and destroyed.

I think this is a good question and should have it's own thread.

[JohnH]

Update from Trudy:
Link

[JohnH]

Some observations:

- John Eicher took advantage of an ordination at Oasis Tabernacle to worm his way into BMA; back then they accepted a transfer of an ordained minister. (I believe they run through the whole credentialing process now.)

- He also sat on the board of the orphanage. Those calling for more bureaucracy should consider what happens when perpetrators and those who enable them get in positions of power like this.

- Oak Hill has continued to let him lead despite BMA defrocking him. Oak Hill really has some explaining to do.

- Oasis Tabernacle needs to take responsibility for ordaining him and not checking his background. Maybe they can do that in between trips to Israel to mine blocks of granite and fill up containers of water from the Jordan.

[Neto]

Do you mean to say that it will never be enough
to prevent abuse in the future?
OR
to satisfy the "abuse advocates"?

(1), nothing is going to 100% solve the problem of very intelligent, crafty sociopaths and psychopaths who either want to abuse people, or else blackmail other abusers for financial gain and power:

(2), no, abuse advocates can’t be satisfied.

The only thing that would satisfy them is the disappearance of the conservative Anabaptist movement. There is clearly an ax to grind here.

Perhaps for some abuse advocates. I have had some reservations about Trudy in the past, but this question is not the reason. (I have some misgivings about Steve as well, so I'm not 'choosing sides' regarding the other thread.)

My main reservation is as to whether it is healthy for the advocates themselves, IF they were also a victim. I have never been a victim of this type of abuse, so I have no personal place from which to form an experienced opinion. It's just an empathetic response. (Perhaps a response from my experiences with other types of 'abuse'.)

But a post from Trudy appeared on FaceBook this morning, where she quotes Menno Simons, and asks "What went wrong? - How did 'we' get to where 'we' are now?" I think it's a good question, and one that does not imply that 'anabaptism needs to go away'.

[ohio jones]

Update from Trudy:

Per the precedent established by Robert, please provide a link rather than quoting the post.

[I Timothy]

(1), nothing is going to 100% solve the problem of very intelligent, crafty sociopaths and psychopaths who either want to abuse people, or else blackmail other abusers for financial gain and power:

(2), no, abuse advocates can’t be satisfied.

The only thing that would satisfy them is the disappearance of the conservative Anabaptist movement. There is clearly an ax to grind here.

I Timothy has been on the record before saying exactly that, which is why I find his motivations suspect.

Do you have a source for this quote? I don't like sex abuse in the conservative Anabaptist movement but I don't think the whole movement is flawed.

[I Timothy]

There is a danger in "over credentialism" and also a danger in over confidence in "credentialism." I have seen that in the secular world after 14 years or so in NYCDOE in the role of teacher, principal, and asst supt.

There is also a danger, and some would say present in our community, of over confidence in thinking bc we are Anabaptist we can succeed by virtue of "who we are" in paths that are extremely difficult...ie raising emotionally traumatized, other peoples, children -- with well meaning beginning of adulthood folks with limited training/experience giving, 2 year cycles.

Because we are Anabaptist doesn't make us automatically equipped, or equipped in a better way, than others. Perhaps we aren't as strong as we think we are...in the words of Rich Mullins. When I grew up, I had the underlying perspective that we (my community) were better workers, better students/teachers, better at scriptural exegesis, better theologians, etc than "the world." It wasn't that long in an "outside context" that I figured out my mental model needed shifting.

Child residential programs of any sort pose difficult challenges. Cross cultural residential programs are extremely complex...as our past efforts to this end have shown in the CA mission construct.

This is well said. These are complex issues with different models that have been tried. I have seen group homes, foster care, large residential homes and campus style housing. Society hasn't solved these problems nor can we solve it better than others. There are complex issues that a 18 year old boy walking into will be blindsided by without training.

[JohnH]

This is well said. These are complex issues with different models that have been tried. I have seen group homes, foster care, large residential homes and campus style housing. Society hasn't solved these problems nor can we solve it better than others. There are complex issues that a 18 year old boy walking into will be blindsided by without training.

Since you're affiliated with BMA, why don't you start working with them as a member to make the changes you want to see happen? However, I disagree with this:

Society hasn't solved these problems nor can we solve it better than others.

I think the power of Christ can certainly solve things better than mainstream society. You may need a reminder of just how bad things are in mainstream society right now.