Biblical Mennonite Alliance and credential removal of past abusers

[JohnH]

Would a bot remember sitting at SMBI in the 1990s and having a classroom discussion about whether a girl should run away from unwanted male advances? This discussion isn't about me, there are real victims who need support and resources.

What does SMBI have to do with BMA? (I personally don't care for SMBI and would advise any young person not to go there due to spiritual concern for them, but that's just my own position.)

Who do you want answering the cries for help at 3am, when a young girl is begging for help after an assault?

I would expect any competent institution to have a procedure for handling a crisis, although I don't know what "cries for help at 3am" means, or who the young girl is who is begging for help after an assault. I would expect there to be proper training for this.

It wasn't BMA, but when I was doing some work with a Keystone-affiliated org, they incorporated this into their training materials including the right procedures to follow. We also were given carte blanche to use our own discretion to decide if felt something needed reported to law enforcement and to also educate ourselves on what any state requirements may be, and to keep abreast of changes. A handbook was distributed with a summary of PA law at the time.

What exactly do we expect the mission director to do? Tell her that the local board has jurisdiction and therefore this is somebody else's problem?

I don't know how the mission is structured so I can't answer that.

[quoteIf the people calling for help are BMA employees, what responsibility does BMA have toward its own employees?[/quote]

At least in organisations I worked in, employees have supervisors or managers, so they first go with a concern to that manager. If they can't get ahold of them or don't get a satisfactory answer, they skip up a level, or else contact an on-call person.

Who knew?

What did they know?

When did they know it?

What did they do?

If something happened that should have been reported but wasn't, why wasn't it reported?

I would not expect any of us to be privy to that.

Whether I like BMA is irrelevant (I do). Whether anyone has confidence in the Mexican government is secondary. Reporting suspected wrongdoing and guaranteeing that the government will respond appropriately are two different things. This creates documentation of the reports and decisions.

Dude, no, it doesn't. A report is just a report - you can do it with a phone call and your only documentation is "called this phone number at this time, made a report". The agency you call might be lackluster and lose the records, or might not make them publicly accessible - they almost never are. If the government institution is corrupt, they will find a way to "lose" it or else stonewall you ever trying to get it.

If anyone reading this forum has firsthand information about possible criminal conduct that has not been reported, please report this information to the appropriate authorities.

Can you narrow down the scope of "criminal conduct" a bit? if I followed your advice there, I'd be on the phone making reports for the rest of my earthly life.

[Judas Maccabeus]

It wasn't BMA, but when I was doing some work with a Keystone-affiliated org, they incorporated this into their training materials including the right procedures to follow. We also were given carte blanche to use our own discretion to decide if felt something needed reported to law enforcement and to also educate ourselves on what any state requirements may be, and to keep abreast of changes. A handbook was distributed with a summary of PA law at the time.

I am familiar with what you speak of. Mid-Atlantic and Eastern use the same training, with minor differences. It had to be modified for Maryland, as the law is different. That was done with the help of Washington-Franklin people. They are serious too. Everyone in the organization in which I work has a supervisor, director, and if all else fails, they know the board. The training makes clear you have the absolute right to call the authorities directly if you are unsatisfied with the action taken. Those numbers are in the handbook and posted.

I am quite sure, with what I have heard of the Church of God in Christ (Mennonite) they would have little tolerance for that as well.

I am headed for retraining in October. Need to do that periodically.

Look, most of us are serious about preventing abuse and will report if appropriate. What input any of us would have on a situation in another conference, in an organization that I am not a part of, in another country kinnda boggels my mind.

[I Timothy]

If anyone reading this forum has firsthand information about possible criminal conduct that has not been reported, please report this information to the appropriate authorities.

Can you narrow down the scope of "criminal conduct" a bit? if I followed your advice there, I'd be on the phone making reports for the rest of my earthly life.

In the context of this discussion, firsthand information concerning suspected child abuse, sexual assault, neglect, exploitation, or other serious criminal conduct involving children or employees that has not already been reported to the appropriate authorities. There could be ministers, Sunday School teachers, friends, etc reading this forum who know people involved in this situation. This is an encouragement for those with information to report it and for those who know people to encourage reporting.

I am not suggesting you call the police every time someone exceeds the speed limit or does something you don't like. I assumed the context of a discussion about the safety of children in an orphanage made that distinction reasonably clear. This is a plea for primary witnesses and not people with second hand knowledge.

[Ernie]

If anyone reading this forum has firsthand information about possible criminal conduct that has not been reported, please report this information to the appropriate authorities.

Can you narrow down the scope of "criminal conduct" a bit? if I followed your advice there, I'd be on the phone making reports for the rest of my earthly life.

In the context of this discussion, firsthand information concerning suspected child abuse, sexual assault, neglect, exploitation, or other serious criminal conduct involving children or employees that has not already been reported to the appropriate authorities. There could be ministers, Sunday School teachers, friends, etc reading this forum who know people involved in this situation. This is an encouragement for those with information to report it and for those who know people to encourage reporting.

I am not suggesting you call the police every time someone exceeds the speed limit or does something you don't like. I assumed the context of a discussion about the safety of children in an orphanage made that distinction reasonably clear. This is a plea for primary witnesses and not people with second hand knowledge.

What biblical principles do we have for reporting "possible criminal conduct" to civil authorities?

I can understand reporting criminal conduct.

[I Timothy]

It wasn't BMA, but when I was doing some work with a Keystone-affiliated org, they incorporated this into their training materials including the right procedures to follow. We also were given carte blanche to use our own discretion to decide if felt something needed reported to law enforcement and to also educate ourselves on what any state requirements may be, and to keep abreast of changes. A handbook was distributed with a summary of PA law at the time.

I am familiar with what you speak of. Mid-Atlantic and Eastern use the same training, with minor differences. It had to be modified for Maryland, as the law is different. That was done with the help of Washington-Franklin people. They are serious too. Everyone in the organization in which I work has a supervisor, director, and if all else fails, they know the board. The training makes clear you have the absolute right to call the authorities directly if you are unsatisfied with the action taken. Those numbers are in the handbook and posted.

I am quite sure, with what I have heard of the Church of God in Christ (Mennonite) they would have little tolerance for that as well.

I am headed for retraining in October. Need to do that periodically.

Look, most of us are serious about preventing abuse and will report if appropriate. What input any of us would have on a situation in another conference, in an organization that I am not a part of, in another country kinnda boggels my mind.

This is where the discussion about training become much more meaningful. I do quarterly compliance trainings concerning some of the issues presented, although at a much less depth than an orphanage would require.

My understanding is that many of the staff received roughly 6 weeks of Spanish instruction and a short course dealing with restraints (per old LOH FB postings) From what I am told, there was no meaningful trauma-informed care or broader training for working with children with behavioral issues.

At the same time, caregivers were reportedly being repeatedly assaulted and abused by children, and there were also incidents of children assaulting other children.

This is not a case of volunteers encountering an occasional difficult child. LOH was employing people to care for children with known histories of trauma and serious behavioral problems, while assaults on both staff and other children are occurring, what training and safety systems were in place?

What were employees supposed to do after an assault?

Who evaluated whether a child presented a continuing danger to staff or other children?

Who determined appropriate staffing levels?

Could an employee bypass management if management's response was inadequate? I appreciate the training JudasM receives.

Were incidents formally documented and reviewed so that repeated assaults involving the same child or circumstances could be identified?

What responsibility did BMA as the employer have toward its own employees/volunteers that were repeatedly being assaulted at LOH?

JudasH described training, procedures, escalation routes, and permission to go outside the chain of command. I can appreciate programs like this.

Six weeks of Spanish and a short restraint course are not substitutes for a child-safeguarding and employee-safety program.

I see 2 groups of vulnerable people here who shouldn't get lost in an argument about organizational structure. We have children who need competent, trauma-informed care and protection from each another. We also have caregivers who need training and protection from workplace violence.

It is also doesn't get lost on me that Trudy made a post today about a horrendous situation. What happened in Mexico would fit what she wrote. It also is not lost on me that QuietlyListening earlier in this thread said that others came in and messed things up. The path to fixing this does not involve calling out others who bring up concerns.

[I Timothy]

Can you narrow down the scope of "criminal conduct" a bit? if I followed your advice there, I'd be on the phone making reports for the rest of my earthly life.

In the context of this discussion, firsthand information concerning suspected child abuse, sexual assault, neglect, exploitation, or other serious criminal conduct involving children or employees that has not already been reported to the appropriate authorities. There could be ministers, Sunday School teachers, friends, etc reading this forum who know people involved in this situation. This is an encouragement for those with information to report it and for those who know people to encourage reporting.

I am not suggesting you call the police every time someone exceeds the speed limit or does something you don't like. I assumed the context of a discussion about the safety of children in an orphanage made that distinction reasonably clear. This is a plea for primary witnesses and not people with second hand knowledge.

What biblical principles do we have for reporting "possible criminal conduct" to civil authorities?

I can understand reporting criminal conduct.

Open your mouth for the mute, for the rights of all who are destitute. Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy. Provers 31:8-9.

Jesus was asked to settle a dispute, he responded by saying he wasn't a judge or arbitrator in Luke 12. This is why criminal courts and the criminal justice system are needed to determine what is the difference between criminal conduct and what is possible criminal conduct.

[JohnH]

I Timothy,

I suggest you start your own organisation, raise funds, find volunteers and hire employees, and operate an orphanage. Then get back to us. You seem to have it all figured out.

[I Timothy]

I Timothy,

I suggest you start your own organisation, raise funds, find volunteers and hire employees, and operate an orphanage. Then get back to us. You seem to have it all figured out.

I operate in a highly regulated environment. We deal with many of the same basic responsibilities: government regulations, staff training, oversight, documentation, incident reporting, employee safety, and accountability. I have managed businesses with 2 comma net income. I understand that running a complex organization is difficult, and I have never suggested that operating an orphanage is easy.

This is not about me or my qualifications.

Let's talk hypothetically.

Things like a young female caregiver who is sexually groped by a resident. She asks leadership for permission to establish some basic physical boundaries. Her request is denied by management.

Maybe Gothard would appreciate the caregivers submission to authority while being groped? Maybe Stutzman would say this was demonic activity and not worthy of staff training?

These are questions about whether the orphanage was being run safely. And there are a lot of questions like this.

[JohnH]

I Timothy,

I suggest you start your own organisation, raise funds, find volunteers and hire employees, and operate an orphanage. Then get back to us. You seem to have it all figured out.

I operate in a highly regulated environment. We deal with many of the same basic responsibilities: government regulations, staff training, oversight, documentation, incident reporting, employee safety, and accountability. I have managed businesses with 2 comma net income. I understand that running a complex organization is difficult, and I have never suggested that operating an orphanage is easy.

This is not about me or my qualifications.

Let's talk hypothetically.

Things like a young female caregiver who is sexually groped by a resident. She asks leadership for permission to establish some basic physical boundaries. Her request is denied by management.

Maybe Gothard would appreciate the caregivers submission to authority while being groped? Maybe Stutzman would say this was demonic activity and not worthy of staff training?

These are questions about whether the orphanage was being run safely. And there are a lot of questions like this.

Sounds like you are eminently qualified to go run one.

Orphanages are not a “highly regulated environment”. I suggest you go spend time volunteering at some and learn how the real world works.

[barnhart]

Would a bot remember sitting at SMBI in the 1990s and having a classroom discussion about whether a girl should run away from unwanted male advances? This discussion isn't about me, there are real victims who need support and resources.

Probably not a bot, but I would. 93, and 94 terms…

Whoa...