Oasis Chorale dancing

[barnhart]

We might also ask why people who wish to sing with excellence and move or clap need be judged for it. Why can't they go where they are invited without critique from mennonet.

[JohnH]

We might also ask why people who wish to sing with excellence and move or clap need be judged for it. Why can't they go where they are invited without critique from mennonet.

They can. They çan choose any place that isn’t a plain Anabaptist church, which is almost everywhere.

[ohio jones]

We might also ask why people who wish to sing with excellence and move or clap need be judged for it. Why can't they go where they are invited without critique from mennonet.

They can. They çan choose any place that isn’t a plain Anabaptist church, which is almost everywhere.

It caused enough of a stir that people at that church I don’t think of as really all that conservative were a bit concerned about it.

So apparently they didn't go to any plain Anabaptist churches this season. Just a not-so-plain Mennonite church, BIC and RCA churches, a school, and two colleges. They must have been listening when planning the itinerary.

[JohnH]

It caused enough of a stir that people at that church I don’t think of as really all that conservative were a bit concerned about it.

So apparently they didn't go to any plain Anabaptist churches this season. Just a not-so-plain Mennonite church, BIC and RCA churches, a school, and two colleges. They must have been listening when planning the itinerary.

Well, they went to Hartville Conservative Mennonite, which, whilst it is probably the least-conservative church in the Mid-West Fellowship, still counts as plain Anabaptist.

[ohio jones]

Apparently they are dancing between "still counts as plain" and "not really all that conservative anymore." Maybe when Oasis was looking at confirming the booking they appeared to be on the "not so plain" side of the line. Or maybe Oasis makes decisions without regard to critique from MN.

[ken_sylvania]

We might also ask why people who wish to sing with excellence and move or clap need be judged for it. Why can't they go where they are invited without critique from mennonet.

Yep. It cuts both ways.

[ken_sylvania]

I thank God every day that His taste in music and the arts is so similar to mine.

I may not have a valuable perspective for this group, not very Menno anyway, as I was extremely blessed in attending a Red Clay Strays concert this weekend and I don’t see anything special in one meeting place over another.

Conservative and plain Anabaptists tend to avoid worldly concerts, musical instrumentation, and generally using music to please the flesh. Some of the least conservative groups will tolerate a bit of this, so they might have a piano in church but no drum set, and would tolerate young people going to “Christian” music concerts.

Not everyone is non-plain Anabaptist, so I’m glad you enjoyed that concert. The question is why people feel a need to mock, criticise, and always try to push the boundaries of plain Anabaptist belief and practice. If we wanted to be worldly, acculturated people, we would just go do that. I’d probably pick Vineyard or Bethel for myself since I like the music.

I am sad you felt mocked, that was not my intent. I see other statements such as from Jared were also interpreted as mocking. I do not believe they were.

I'm not sure if JohnH felt mocked by your post - I don't read it that way.

How do you interpret this portion of Jared's comment? Is he serious, or is he mocking?

While I find these sorts of accusations and complaints bewildering and exasperating, I think they also serve a useful purpose, in some grim sense. If a young Anabaptist with artistic inclinations and aspirations finds themselves wondering whether their gifts and interests might be welcomed, encouraged, and cared for in their church community, encountering sentiments such as these from leaders and trusted members of the community provides a great deal of clarity in answering those questions. Perhaps at some point in the distant utopian future, messaging like this will gain enough momentum to successfully push most of the poets, painters, and musicians out of the church. Only then can we attain an environment that is sufficiently drab and bleak to allow us to get down to the serious business of worship, without all the extraneous nonsense that the pesky artists insist on foisting upon us.

[JohnH]

We might also ask why people who wish to sing with excellence and move or clap need be judged for it. Why can't they go where they are invited without critique from mennonet.

Yep. It cuts both ways.

I can certainly attest that those who are in churches that clap, dance, play music at 100 dB, have a drum set, etc. most certainly would not be interested in plain people coming in an extolling the virtues of not doing those things and sticking to simple 1 or 4 part acapella instead.

[AnthonyMartin]

I do not see that section of Jared’s post as mocking any part of the plain culture. It seems to me a simple statement that those with artistic callings just don’t fit and will most likely feel they do not belong in the plain churches. I took him to be serious. A bit biting maybe, but serious.

I think JohnH felt more that I was mocking the culture rather than him and that still makes me sad. I wasn’t intending to mock any position or culture. The statement calls me out as much or more than anyone.

[JohnH]

I do not see that section of Jared’s post as mocking any part of the plain culture. It seems to me a simple statement that those with artistic callings just don’t fit and will most likely feel they do not belong in the plain churches. I took him to be serious. A bit biting maybe, but serious.

I think JohnH felt more that I was mocking the culture rather than him and that still makes me sad. I wasn’t intending to mock any position or culture. The statement calls me out as much or more than anyone.

Sometimes I wonder if the people who speak to me about such things realise that I am an "artist" and a "musician" myself. Instead, I often get treated like I'm just some kind of plain-person rube who grew up speaking Pennsylvania Dutch behind a woodstove and thought a trip to the Park City Center mall is a major life experience.

I have real reasons and reservations and concerns about "the arts". Much of that comes from, well, actually participating in "the arts" and being around people who think they have "artistic callings". (A free tip - many people who think they have "artistic callings" possess zero aptitude towards art worth pursuing at all.) Even more embarrassing are ex-plain people who think that the only reason they haven't come into some kind of glorious career as an "artist" is because the oppressive, evil plain culture somehow held them back.

There is a sad lack of insight that lots and lots of non-plain people want to be artists, musicians, actors, dancers, ballerinas, and so forth, and very, very few of them possess the talent to do so at the level of running a storefront in a small town giving dance lessons, much less doing so at a professional level. The reality is that plain culture means I can live in a world where my daughter doesn't get to grow up pressured her whole life that she should try to be an accomplished dancer or ballerina or gymnast (which some tiny fraction of a percent of people who try to do so, will actually succeed); and for this reason, I think it is far more superior than the meat-grinder of "the arts".