He/She has his/her new body

[Neto]

Our head pastor has often made the statement at a funeral that [he/she] has [his/her] new body. He says it basically in the context of giving comfort to the family, so I've never asked him to explain this, in the sense that it is a contradiction to the teaching of a future resurrection - when Christ returns in the clouds, and catches up both the resurrected saints as well as any who are still living at that time of future blessing.

Two men in our congregation recently died within a single week, and one of our younger pastors preached the message at the second funeral. He made the same statement several times, so it wasn't only in the context of giving comfort for those who remain behind, in this world.

I asked him about it today after the morning service, regarding what happens to the two resulting bodies - the one received immediately after death, and the one that will be received at the catching up. He referenced the story Jesus told about Lazarus and the 'rich man', pointing out that both men were able to recognize one another. (Or at least that the rich man could see Lazarus in Abraham's lap, while he himself was in the place of torment, two places separated by an uncrossable chasm.)

We talked for some time, so I cannot remember well enough to list his reasons for holding to the view that a deceased Christian "receives a new body" as soon as the spirit ascends to heaven. So what reason exists for a catching up of the old body, if a new one already exists?

My own understanding is that the talk about a person receiving a new body before the resurrection is a misguided & Biblically unsupported effort to comfort the friends and family of the deceased believer. I do fully realize that if there ARE two bodies at the resurrection, that this is no problem for God, but I'm curious what you all think about this. (I Do also realize that Full Preterists believe that the promised resurrection took place in 70 A.D., and that those who die later have their own one-at-a-time resurrection, catching up, and changing. But what about the rest of you?)

[JohnH]

It is rather obvious that the concept of time in heaven is not the same as on our earth, so we can't really speak of events happening in "parallel" so to sleep. (Hence, I find questions like "Are people in heaven asleep until the resurrection?" to be begging the question.)

For those who would argue otherwise, I would ask what frame of reference the clocks in heaven are running at: are they strictly on earth time? What about someone who is in a stable orbit around a TON 618 sized black hole that is rapidly rotating, where they experience 7 months whilst a year goes by on earth?

[R7ehr]

I don’t have much to contribute. However, since our flesh returns to dust after we die, but somehow the graves will be opened and we will rise to meet Him, it seems like a new body will be needed in order to rise.

[temporal1]

I don’t have much to contribute. However, since our flesh returns to dust after we die, but somehow the graves will be opened and we will rise to meet Him, it seems like a new body will be needed in order to rise.

mysteries+mysteries, esp about our God given spiritual nature.
before my husband died, i believe my “understanding” or thoughts about our physical bodies were dust to dust, that we existed in eternal spirituality .. BUT ..

within a few weeks of his death, maybe 40 days, i’m not sure .. i had a distinct “visitation” dream, in which he “appeared before me” as no other dream or experience .. he appeared real+whole, “at his best” never better .. it was brief. but in that moment i felt shame (and didn’t want him to know) i’d planned for his death+funeral .. i “should have” been planning for his LIFE!

i’ve lost a number of beloved ones in the decades of my life. NOTHING like this.
i wonder in awe now. i pray for my beloved ones, that they are whole+new, better than ever in eternity.
i miss them terribly. and wonder. in abject humility.

he appeared like a vision. he left quickly. i was left with a feeling i’d not see him again, which was excruciating.
talk about packed with emotions! extraordinary. i felt shame at my weak faith, i was sorry for that.
while overjoyed at the same moment.

he wore a beautiful suit (not his favorite thing) it was all “perfect”. he glowed, no complaint, everything was without flaw.
i don’t remember if there was a tie, he didn’t like ties .. i’m blank on that. but the suit. flawless. a flawless vision.

anyway. it’s all a mystery for me since. and it’s ok thataway. i just marvel about it. i marvel at what i saw.

- - - - - - -

later, i registered on MD.
where i read of those who believe (from scriptures) that we will have our earthly bodies, well and whole.
i remain mystified. i submit to God’s omniscience and grace.

[justme]

within a few weeks of his death, maybe 40 days, i’m not sure .. i had a distinct “visitation” dream, in which he “appeared before me” as no other dream or experience .. he appeared real+whole, “at his best” never better .. it was brief.

so did my dad
since then, i've read that experience happens frequently for people.
one visitation, very brief.
i don't know what to think about it.

[barnhart]

My own understanding is that the talk about a person receiving a new body before the resurrection is a misguided & Biblically unsupported effort to comfort the friends and family of the deceased believer. I do fully realize that if there ARE two bodies at the resurrection, that this is no problem for God, but I'm curious what you all think about this. (I Do also realize that Full Preterists believe that the promised resurrection took place in 70 A.D., and that those who die later have their own one-at-a-time resurrection, catching up, and changing. But what about the rest of you?)

I don't know. The general principle I see in scripture is continuity, old to new. Different but somehow the same in many ways. I also have this expectation about the new heavens and earth, recognizable but different. I can't say if the atoms composing this world carry through or not. The clearest view we have is of Jesus' resurrected body which was fully human, clearly still Jesus but different in important ways. How that transition is made, I don't think we know.

In Revelation there is a curious detail about martyred souls waiting "under the altar" asking how long. I'm not sure what to make of that.

[Neto]

My own understanding is that the talk about a person receiving a new body before the resurrection is a misguided & Biblically unsupported effort to comfort the friends and family of the deceased believer. I do fully realize that if there ARE two bodies at the resurrection, that this is no problem for God, but I'm curious what you all think about this. (I Do also realize that Full Preterists believe that the promised resurrection took place in 70 A.D., and that those who die later have their own one-at-a-time resurrection, catching up, and changing. But what about the rest of you?)

I don't know. The general principle I see in scripture is continuity, old to new. Different but somehow the same in many ways. I also have this expectation about the new heavens and earth, recognizable but different. I can't say if the atoms composing this world carry through or not. The clearest view we have is of Jesus' resurrected body which was fully human, clearly still Jesus but different in important ways. How that transition is made, I don't think we know.

In Revelation there is a curious detail about martyred souls waiting "under the altar" asking how long. I'm not sure what to make of that.

Regarding the new heavens and the new earth:
Scripture compares the 'destruction' of the pre-flood world, by water, with the future 'destruction' of the present world by fire. In the first case, the earth was purified by water. If this is an accurate comparison, then the current earth will be purified by fire. This is my best understanding of this question.

(I went through pre-baptismal classes in the summer after 8th grade, and since we lived only a quarter mile from the church house, I walked down my grandpa's farm lane to get to their house, where I crossed the highway to get to the church house. Back then pop and beer was almost entirely sold in glass bottles, and lots of people threw the bottles out the window as they drove down the road. Broken glass was everywhere along there, even up into the fields. I picked up what I could, but remember thinking that only an intense fire could make all of that broken glass no longer dangerous to bare feet. That's just the physical side of a correlation I saw at that time, for the purification of the earth by fire. Now, we have all other much more dangerous waste all over the place. Toxic chemical waste. Nuclear waste. In the natural sense, only very intense heat can mitigate the resulting dangers, to achieve an "Edenistic earth".)

[JimFoxvog]

The Bible uses the metaphor of "sleep" for the state of the deceased, but JohnH may well be right that time is not the same. My idea is that when we die, the next thing we know will be our resurrection along with everyone else.

[barnhart]

My own understanding is that the talk about a person receiving a new body before the resurrection is a misguided & Biblically unsupported effort to comfort the friends and family of the deceased believer. I do fully realize that if there ARE two bodies at the resurrection, that this is no problem for God, but I'm curious what you all think about this. (I Do also realize that Full Preterists believe that the promised resurrection took place in 70 A.D., and that those who die later have their own one-at-a-time resurrection, catching up, and changing. But what about the rest of you?)

I don't know. The general principle I see in scripture is continuity, old to new. Different but somehow the same in many ways. I also have this expectation about the new heavens and earth, recognizable but different. I can't say if the atoms composing this world carry through or not. The clearest view we have is of Jesus' resurrected body which was fully human, clearly still Jesus but different in important ways. How that transition is made, I don't think we know.

In Revelation there is a curious detail about martyred souls waiting "under the altar" asking how long. I'm not sure what to make of that.

Regarding the new heavens and the new earth:
Scripture compares the 'destruction' of the pre-flood world, by water, with the future 'destruction' of the present world by fire. In the first case, the earth was purified by water. If this is an accurate comparison, then the current earth will be purified by fire. This is my best understanding of this question.

I lean that way. When I said "I don't know", I meant we probably can't have certainty about such things.