Oasis Chorale dancing

[JohnH]

An obvious question is why, if I want to embrace things like dance and more modern musical styles, I need to get it from a group like Oasis Chorale. There are all kinds of wonderful Christian worship teams who are certainly worshipping God "in spirit and in truth", and use drums, electric guitars, keyboards, laptops running special audio software for sound effects, all kinds of lights on stage, and have beautiful choreographed movement - or sometimes even spontaneous movement.

Here is one of my favourite performances, one I will admit I occasionally watch or listen to when I find myself particularly in need of streaming-video-recorded-audio-based-encouragement:



(It reminds me of a time when I did things other than drone on in the bass or tenor part from one of the back pews whist shuffling my children, or, on a better day perhaps, sing for 5 minutes at family devotions one of the 4 part songs I am trying to teach them.)

Now, if I look at that, I see a very beautiful form of worship, wonderful music, clear lyrics, and a clarity of spontaneous movement that certainly could be called dancing (and that's just on the stage - the audience is a whole 'nother matter).

However, that does not mean that what I think needs to happen in our churches is installing a Bethel worship team, or perhaps having them visit periodically and having a big to-do where they come and perform for us. If I wanted to experience Bethel, or New Pointe, or Faith Family, I could just... go there.

And what I really don't need is a half-baked, half-talented edition of the kind of worship that Bethel puts on, for free, every Sunday, that I'm supposed to take out an evening to attend and then act like it's something special - because it isn't.

[Judas Maccabeus]

However, that does not mean that what I think needs to happen in our churches is installing a Bethel worship team, or perhaps having them visit periodically and having a big to-do where they come and perform for us. If I wanted to experience Bethel, or New Pointe, or Faith Family, I could just... go there.

And what I really don't need is a half-baked, half-talented edition of the kind of worship that Bethel puts on, for free, every Sunday, that I'm supposed to take out an evening to attend and then act like it's something special - because it isn't.

It soon transitions fron worship, where all can engage and participate, to a situation where only those with “talent “ participate. The rest are essentially spectators. I don’t see this as a biblically sound direction. I was in such a church years ago, and sooner or later, the service becomes a spectator friendly endeavor, participation from those less talented unwelcome, either formally or informally.

If I wanted Bethel-Redding I would go there. I won’t, ever. My suspicion is that sooner or later this movement will wind up the same place as the Toronto Blessing.

[barnhart]

However, that does not mean that what I think needs to happen in our churches is installing a Bethel worship team, or perhaps having them visit periodically and having a big to-do where they come and perform for us. If I wanted to experience Bethel, or New Pointe, or Faith Family, I could just... go there.

And what I really don't need is a half-baked, half-talented edition of the kind of worship that Bethel puts on, for free, every Sunday, that I'm supposed to take out an evening to attend and then act like it's something special - because it isn't.

It soon transitions fron worship, where all can engage and participate, to a situation where only those with “talent “ participate. The rest are essentially spectators. I don’t see this as a biblically sound direction. I was in such a church years ago, and sooner or later, the service becomes a spectator friendly endeavor, participation from those less talented unwelcome, either formally or informally.

I understand this but there are also those who find the "singing parts" tradition difficult and alienating and prefer the support of everyone sing the same part with an instrument providing chord progressions. It depends a lot on what you are comfortable with.

[JohnH]

I understand this but there are also those who find the "singing parts" tradition difficult and alienating and prefer the support of everyone sing the same part with an instrument providing chord progressions. It depends a lot on what you are comfortable with.

4-part singing can be as elitist as professionalised worship teams. (I would argue that Oasis Chorale is well on their way to being such a thing, and promoting elitism in singing.)

[JohnH]

It soon transitions fron worship, where all can engage and participate, to a situation where only those with “talent “ participate. The rest are essentially spectators. I don’t see this as a biblically sound direction. I was in such a church years ago, and sooner or later, the service becomes a spectator friendly endeavor, participation from those less talented unwelcome, either formally or informally.

Yes, this is precisely one of my concerns.

The other concern is that it is a transitional cultural form. I really liked the charismatic style of worship I grew up around in the 1980s, which was uniquely Australian, had many Australian-written songs, songbooks, music books for playing piano at home or in small groups, and so forth. But since it is transitional, none of that is still around anymore, other than some books inside my mother's piano bench. I don't sing the songs with my children. Occasionally I sign them with my parents.

(I would note that if you go to a Charity type of church, you will hear songs being played that were popular with charismatics in the late 90s/early 2000s, but which no self-respecting charismatic or Pentecostal church plays anymore.)

Whereas if you or I visited each other's congregations - or my children did - we would probably recognise 50%+ of the songs, and several of them would be very familiar, and they most likely still will be in 50 years.

If I wanted Bethel-Redding I would go there. I won’t, ever. My suspicion is that sooner or later this movement will wind up the same place as the Toronto Blessing.

Toronto's reputation and aftermath is so bad that, as I am aware of it, Bethel leadership takes active steps not to end up like that. For example, they are trying to have much more focus on local evangelism and discipleship vs attracting people who move there or travel in to visit.

They have a bunch of other problems, though... probably the biggest one is that in a hyper-charismatic atmosphere, many people of weaker faith simply end up faking signs and wonders. For example, there was a guy who claimed to have words of knowledge, but he just researched regularly attenders on Facebook first for a while, and then would call them out of the audience with seemingly amazing foreknowledge.

[ohio jones]

Because at this point they are a medium of liberal-progressive influence.

A few words on worship dance from a senior statesman of the liberal-progressive tradition.

[AnthonyMartin]

I understand this but there are also those who find the "singing parts" tradition difficult and alienating and prefer the support of everyone sing the same part with an instrument providing chord progressions. It depends a lot on what you are comfortable with.

4-part singing can be as elitist as professionalised worship teams. (I would argue that Oasis Chorale is well on their way to being such a thing, and promoting elitism in singing.)

How is this and “the attitude of the singers keeps showing through” not simply a fundamental attribution error? Is elitism significantly different from excellence?

[AnthonyMartin]

I thank God every day that His taste in music and the arts is so similar to mine.

I may not have a valuable perspective for this group, not very Menno anyway, as I was extremely blessed in attending a Red Clay Strays concert this weekend and I don’t see anything special in one meeting place over another.

[JohnH]

I thank God every day that His taste in music and the arts is so similar to mine.

I may not have a valuable perspective for this group, not very Menno anyway, as I was extremely blessed in attending a Red Clay Strays concert this weekend and I don’t see anything special in one meeting place over another.

Conservative and plain Anabaptists tend to avoid worldly concerts, musical instrumentation, and generally using music to please the flesh. Some of the least conservative groups will tolerate a bit of this, so they might have a piano in church but no drum set, and would tolerate young people going to “Christian” music concerts.

Not everyone is non-plain Anabaptist, so I’m glad you enjoyed that concert. The question is why people feel a need to mock, criticise, and always try to push the boundaries of plain Anabaptist belief and practice. If we wanted to be worldly, acculturated people, we would just go do that. I’d probably pick Vineyard or Bethel for myself since I like the music.

[AnthonyMartin]

I thank God every day that His taste in music and the arts is so similar to mine.

I may not have a valuable perspective for this group, not very Menno anyway, as I was extremely blessed in attending a Red Clay Strays concert this weekend and I don’t see anything special in one meeting place over another.

Conservative and plain Anabaptists tend to avoid worldly concerts, musical instrumentation, and generally using music to please the flesh. Some of the least conservative groups will tolerate a bit of this, so they might have a piano in church but no drum set, and would tolerate young people going to “Christian” music concerts.

Not everyone is non-plain Anabaptist, so I’m glad you enjoyed that concert. The question is why people feel a need to mock, criticise, and always try to push the boundaries of plain Anabaptist belief and practice. If we wanted to be worldly, acculturated people, we would just go do that. I’d probably pick Vineyard or Bethel for myself since I like the music.

I am sad you felt mocked, that was not my intent. I see other statements such as from Jared were also interpreted as mocking. I do not believe they were.