The Origin of Plain Anabaptists

[ohio jones]

Expressing exasperation and bewilderment and mocking Plain Anabaptists for wanting to stay Plain has been going on now for just over 500 years.

The category of Plain Anabaptists implies that there are other categories of Anabaptists, such as non-Plain Anabaptists and just plain Anabaptists.

At what point in time did Plain Anabaptists become identifiable as a distinct group?

[JohnH]

A deeper question is what is the origin of Plain anything; for that, one will have to set aside Dutch treats, courage, fry pies, and so forth, and sail a bit to the north, where the Quakers pioneered the concept of being "Plain". "Plain dress" meant not having too much finery or adornments, "Plain speech" meant using ordinal numbers for days of the week, and so forth.

Eventually these customs rubbed off to Anabaptists in Pennsylvania. It is notable that the concept of being "Plain" never seemed to emerge in European Anabaptism. Descriptions of Amish in France (for example) seem quite different from our concepts of Amish today. Things like kapps were worn simply because that's what everyone else wore, too.

[Ernie]

Expressing exasperation and bewilderment and mocking Plain Anabaptists for wanting to stay Plain has been going on now for just over 500 years.

The category of Plain Anabaptists implies that there are other categories of Anabaptists, such as non-Plain Anabaptists and just plain Anabaptists.

My statement would have been better spelled this way.

Expressing exasperation and bewilderment and mocking plain Anabaptists for wanting to stay plain has been going on now for just over 500 years.

At what point in time did Plain Anabaptists become identifiable as a distinct group?

It depends on what definition we are using for Plain.

If we are talking about a culture in which the group begins to take on a certain identifiable look. ..
https://record.goshen.edu/arts/historic ... on-display
1600 (The Recognizable Look):
By this year, historical records show that European Anabaptists had become highly recognizable by their unique, plain clothing.

If we are talking about prescribing certain cuts and styles of clothing... the Amman "ordnung" in 1693 seems to be the first.

Although Mennonites locally had prescribed cuts and styles of clothing, it was not codified more generally until 1881.

[joshuabgood]

From my perspective, Plain Anabaptism as we know it emerged as a response to modernism and industrialism.

[barnhart]

In the church tradition that produced me, the visible lifestyle distinctions between Mennonites and the rest of society were minimal until the late 19th or early 20th century. Less immediately visible distinctions were present like suspicion of wealth accumulation, prohibition of slavery, resistance to socio-religious trends like revivalism. Here in America I think the impulse to clothing distinction arose as a response to the availability of cheaper factory made options and the trendiness or stylishness that followed.

Expressing exasperation and bewilderment and mocking Plain Anabaptists for wanting to stay Plain has been going on now for just over 500 years.

I would agree more with this if it said something like "Anabaptists have a 500 year history of making lifestyle choices that pushback against the excesses of society." I'm not convinced their has been a consistent thread of what is currently called plainess in general practice.

[joshuabgood]

In the church tradition that produced me, the visible lifestyle distinctions between Mennonites and the rest of society were minimal until the late 19th or early 20th century. Less immediately visible distinctions were present like suspicion of wealth accumulation, prohibition of slavery, resistance to socio-religious trends like revivalism. Here in America I think the impulse to clothing distinction arose as a response to the availability of cheaper factory made options and the trendiness or stylishness that followed.

Expressing exasperation and bewilderment and mocking Plain Anabaptists for wanting to stay Plain has been going on now for just over 500 years.

I would agree more with this if it said something like "Anabaptists have a 500 year history of making lifestyle choices that pushback against the excesses of society." I'm not convinced their has been a consistent thread of what is currently called plainess in general practice.

I think this also born out in the overlap of fellowship between Mennos and other denominations in earlier centuries. For instance, Lutherans and Mennos in the earlier centuries intermingled and intermarried in lancaster at somewhat significant levels. Even sharing pulpits in occasion in the early settler days.

[JohnH]

From my perspective, Plain Anabaptism as we know it emerged as a response to modernism and industrialism.

Or you could say Plain Quakerism did, largely focusing on the absolutely horrible abuse of human life that occurred with early industrialisation. Hence Quakers refused to do things like buy products produced with materials or in conditions that caused factory workers to die young, and this led to them having a unique style of attiring themselves, eventually.

[ken_sylvania]

In the church tradition that produced me, the visible lifestyle distinctions between Mennonites and the rest of society were minimal until the late 19th or early 20th century. Less immediately visible distinctions were present like suspicion of wealth accumulation, prohibition of slavery, resistance to socio-religious trends like revivalism. Here in America I think the impulse to clothing distinction arose as a response to the availability of cheaper factory made options and the trendiness or stylishness that followed.

It wouldn't particularly surprise me if that church tradition is the Mennonites in the mid-western and western US. I don't think that would be accurate in describing Franconia and Lancaster conference tradition. While plainness of clothing might have been more pronounced among the Brethren, it was recognizable among the PA Mennonites also in the 18th century. There is a tendency to look at photographs (more likely to be taken of and by the less conservative element) and assume that they are representative of most Mennonites. Also to look at where practices had drifted to by the mid 19th century and assume that it is representative of the prior two centuries of Mennonite practice. Based on what I've read of church history in the 18th century I don't think either is accurate.

[barnhart]

In the church tradition that produced me, the visible lifestyle distinctions between Mennonites and the rest of society were minimal until the late 19th or early 20th century. Less immediately visible distinctions were present like suspicion of wealth accumulation, prohibition of slavery, resistance to socio-religious trends like revivalism. Here in America I think the impulse to clothing distinction arose as a response to the availability of cheaper factory made options and the trendiness or stylishness that followed.

Expressing exasperation and bewilderment and mocking Plain Anabaptists for wanting to stay Plain has been going on now for just over 500 years.

I would agree more with this if it said something like "Anabaptists have a 500 year history of making lifestyle choices that pushback against the excesses of society." I'm not convinced their has been a consistent thread of what is currently called plainess in general practice.

I think this also born out in the overlap of fellowship between Mennos and other denominations in earlier centuries. For instance, Lutherans and Mennos in the earlier centuries intermingled and intermarried in lancaster at somewhat significant levels. Even sharing pulpits in occasion in the early settler days.

I don't know much about this history although my father's family were Lutheran at immigration and joined the Anabaptists after arrival. How did association with Lutheran's contribute to the plain identity.

[barnhart]

In the church tradition that produced me, the visible lifestyle distinctions between Mennonites and the rest of society were minimal until the late 19th or early 20th century. Less immediately visible distinctions were present like suspicion of wealth accumulation, prohibition of slavery, resistance to socio-religious trends like revivalism. Here in America I think the impulse to clothing distinction arose as a response to the availability of cheaper factory made options and the trendiness or stylishness that followed.

It wouldn't particularly surprise me if that church tradition is the Mennonites in the mid-western and western US. I don't think that would be accurate in describing Franconia and Lancaster conference tradition. While plainness of clothing might have been more pronounced among the Brethren, it was recognizable among the PA Mennonites also in the 18th century. There is a tendency to look at photographs (more likely to be taken of and by the less conservative element) and assume that they are representative of most Mennonites. Also to look at where practices had drifted to by the mid 19th century and assume that it is representative of the prior two centuries of Mennonite practice. Based on what I've read of church history in the 18th century I don't think either is accurate.

I don't know much about the traditions you reference but photos of Virginia mennonites in the late 19th century are mostly indistinguishable from their neighbors. It's possible someone with detailed knowledge could point out the differences but to a general observer, I doubt it.

I think there is a good argument to be made that the distinctions of plain Mennonites are the result of a buffered or slowed interaction with modernity. In other words we were slower to change.