Bunny Trails

[JohnH]

I expect journalists to do a basic amount of research, though, and not make outright bogus claims in their articles.

[JohnH]

And yes, Mennonites can use electricity and drive cars.

Many Mennonites don’t use electricity or drive cars, like Hoovers, Spencer type Mennonites, and Wengers (for the cars, at least).

Meanwhile electricity use is near universal amongst OO Amish and the ones near me drive cars (and trucks).

People might trust you more if you would stick to the truth.

Would you mind explaining where the mistruth is?

Nearly all OO Amish use electricity in the form of solar panels, gas generators, or other sources. They also use it (at least around here) in the form of leased buildings if it is leased from someone else who then provides electricity as part of the lease.

Likewise, the ones near me will acquire a vehicle and operate it provided it is leased or their business owns the vehicle instead of them personally.

I was somewhat surprised when I was working in the office and my colleague came in to ask me if I had any fuel cans, since she was helping an Amish couple who ran out of fuel and coasted into the gas station here in town, but that one didn't have diesel. We just gave them one of our old cans, drove them to the station with diesel pumps, and made sure their truck got started OK. They were certainly Amish (not Mennonite). To be clear, these OO Amish were from (I think) Coshocton or some other area like that, not locally, but were on their way to visit some of the local Amish near me.

In short, it is simply no longer the case that "Mennonites and Amish are similar religions, but Mennonites use electric and cars".

[ken_sylvania]

Many Mennonites don’t use electricity or drive cars, like Hoovers, Spencer type Mennonites, and Wengers (for the cars, at least).

Meanwhile electricity use is near universal amongst OO Amish and the ones near me drive cars (and trucks).

People might trust you more if you would stick to the truth.

Would you mind explaining where the mistruth is?

Nearly all OO Amish use electricity in the form of solar panels, gas generators, or other sources. They also use it (at least around here) in the form of leased buildings if it is leased from someone else who then provides electricity as part of the lease.

Likewise, the ones near me will acquire a vehicle and operate it provided it is leased or their business owns the vehicle instead of them personally.

I was somewhat surprised when I was working in the office and my colleague came in to ask me if I had any fuel cans, since she was helping an Amish couple who ran out of fuel and coasted into the gas station here in town, but that one didn't have diesel. We just gave them one of our old cans, drove them to the station with diesel pumps, and made sure their truck got started OK. They were certainly Amish (not Mennonite). To be clear, these OO Amish were from (I think) Coshocton or some other area like that, not locally, but were on their way to visit some of the local Amish near me.

In short, it is simply no longer the case that "Mennonites and Amish are similar religions, but Mennonites use electric and cars".

The Swartzentruber Amish in your area commonly use electricity in ways that the Hoover Mennonites don't?

[ken_sylvania]

I expect journalists to do a basic amount of research, though, and not make outright bogus claims in their articles.

So it's OK for you to do, but not for a journalist?

What "outright bogus" claims do you think the writer made in that article?

[ohio jones]

From the article:

And yes, Mennonites can use electricity and drive cars.

Many Mennonites don’t use electricity or drive cars, like Hoovers, Spencer type Mennonites, and Wengers (for the cars, at least).

It's from a Baltimore newspaper. Are there any OOMs in the Baltimore region, or anywhere in Maryland for that matter? The nuances of what "many" (but still a small minority of) Mennonites in other areas might do is outside the scope of the article.

The first comment following the article makes the accusation of bogus claims from the other direction:

Mennonites welcome gender and sexual diversity, have LGBTQ+ pastors, etc.

Blanket statements about what Mennonites do or don't do are perilous. But "can use electricity and drive cars" covers a much larger portion of the Mennonite spectrum than "don't use electricity or drive cars" or "have LGBTQ+ pastors."

[JohnH]

The Swartzentruber Amish in your area commonly use electricity in ways that the Hoover Mennonites don't?

I said "OO Amish" specifically to refer to them (which I am the most familiar with), so as not to include Swartzentrubers, the Dan church, Tobe Amish (although I think they are using electricity now), and so forth.

[JohnH]

It's from a Baltimore newspaper. Are there any OOMs in the Baltimore region, or anywhere in Maryland for that matter? The nuances of what "many" (but still a small minority of) Mennonites in other areas might do is outside the scope of the article.

Yes, Old Order Mennonites have been established in Maryland for quite some time, although I can't remember if they are Hornings or Wengers.

The first comment following the article makes the accusation of bogus claims from the other direction:

Mennonites welcome gender and sexual diversity, have LGBTQ+ pastors, etc.

Blanket statements about what Mennonites do or don't do are perilous. But "can use electricity and drive cars" covers a much larger portion of the Mennonite spectrum than "don't use electricity or drive cars" or "have LGBTQ+ pastors."

Yes, those are imprecise, inaccurate things that a respectable journalist shouldn't say. Instead, they should say "Mennonites are a broad group that covers many different patterns of religious belief and ethnic groups," or something similar, and then make it clear which sub-set they are writing about. (By numbers, the largest populations of Mennonites are Ethiopians who aren't Old Order or progressive/liberal and probably would be best described as about aligned with Lancaster Conference sort of beliefs, which makes since since EMM ran the original missions out there).

Most readers probably aren't interested in an article about that though and just want to hear about people who look/behave in ways that seem distinctive, plain, or quaint.

[ken_sylvania]

The Swartzentruber Amish in your area commonly use electricity in ways that the Hoover Mennonites don't?

I said "OO Amish" specifically to refer to them (which I am the most familiar with), so as not to include Swartzentrubers, the Dan church, Tobe Amish (although I think they are using electricity now), and so forth.

The Swartzentrubers are Old Order Amish.

[JohnH]

The Swartzentruber Amish in your area commonly use electricity in ways that the Hoover Mennonites don't?

I said "OO Amish" specifically to refer to them (which I am the most familiar with), so as not to include Swartzentrubers, the Dan church, Tobe Amish (although I think they are using electricity now), and so forth.

The Swartzentrubers are Old Order Amish.

Okay then. I am using the term "Old Order Amish" to refer to the group of Old Order Amish who are, well, in fellowship with each other. It is a large group - probably the biggest group of Amish by population.

Is there another term you would prefer to refer to "Old Order Amish who are in fellowship with each other?" Swartzentrubers are a very distinct thing from the rest of the OO Amish.

In addition, you'll notice I didn't say all Amish, including OO Amish, are using electric or driving cars, just like some non-Anabaptist people don't drive cars and some don't use electricity either. I am simply saying that a blanket statement that "Amish" don't use electric or drive cars is not an accurate statement.

[ken_sylvania]

It's from a Baltimore newspaper. Are there any OOMs in the Baltimore region, or anywhere in Maryland for that matter? The nuances of what "many" (but still a small minority of) Mennonites in other areas might do is outside the scope of the article.

Yes, Old Order Mennonites have been established in Maryland for quite some time, although I can't remember if they are Hornings or Wengers.

The first comment following the article makes the accusation of bogus claims from the other direction:

Mennonites welcome gender and sexual diversity, have LGBTQ+ pastors, etc.

Blanket statements about what Mennonites do or don't do are perilous. But "can use electricity and drive cars" covers a much larger portion of the Mennonite spectrum than "don't use electricity or drive cars" or "have LGBTQ+ pastors."

Yes, those are imprecise, inaccurate things that a respectable journalist shouldn't say. Instead, they should say "Mennonites are a broad group that covers many different patterns of religious belief and ethnic groups," or something similar, and then make it clear which sub-set they are writing about. (By numbers, the largest populations of Mennonites are Ethiopians who aren't Old Order or progressive/liberal and probably would be best described as about aligned with Lancaster Conference sort of beliefs, which makes since since EMM ran the original missions out there).

Most readers probably aren't interested in an article about that though and just want to hear about people who look/behave in ways that seem distinctive, plain, or quaint.

And yet, you routinely make sweeping generalizations about groups of people and present them in absolute terms. Seems like a person claiming to be a Christian ought to hold themselves to a higher standard of truth, not a lower standard.