Trudy Metzger/Steve Stutzman

[JohnH]

Here is a particularly horrible example of how things shouldn't be done:

https://www.theintelligencer.net/news/c ... -for-rape/

Now, I don't know for sure if the man did what he has been accused and convicted of, but I would say that convictions for this sort of thing (decided by a jury) do generally meet a high bar for evidence. Here is what is troubling:

- The accused perpetrator seemed to show no remorse at all - I guess he is still maintaining he didn't it.
- The victims were socially pressured into not going to the police or reporting the crime, to the point of being outcast or shunned from the Amish community. This is despite the fact that the Amish leadership who is responsible for dealing with these things considered it worth reporting.
- The prosecutor was surprised at how much "support" there was for the perpetrator:

"I was somewhat surprised by the amount of support that he did receive. With that said, every defendant is innocent until proven guilty, and it’s my job to present those facts to the jury so they can make a determination," prosecutor James Peters said. "Even though the community may not have believed these girls, it was pretty clear immediately that the jury did."

He added that when the daughters came forward about their father they were removed from the home through what’s called an Amish restoration team which is similar to Child Protective Services within the Amish community. The team recommended that the children be removed and receive counseling, which they did.

The victims wanted to have a letter read to the perptrator (their father):

"Because we spoke up and told the truth, most of the people in this community think that we are lying and that we are brainwashed,” the letter read. “We cannot see our brothers because of that. I have not seen them for a year.

"In the Amish community, the victims are the ones that are punished, and the perpetrator is thought of as a wonderful guy,” the letter continued. “But even though we are treated bad, I am not sorry that I spoke up. This is a horrible sin that happens way too often, and as long as it’s an Amish person who does it, it is just OK and you should forgive and forget, and not go to the law. We can forgive, but we will never forget. And, Dad, being punished on earth is much better than being punished eternally. God knows everything that happened, and everybody else will too someday."

The letter added that regardless of what people in their community believe, God knows all.

"Read First Corinthians, Chapter Five. Dad, if you would have admitted it all from the start, it wouldn’t have come to this," the letter said.

Unfortunately, this is reminiscent of the Jeriah Mast case (which didn't involve Amish people, but involved a Charity-ish type of denomination), where a great deal of his supporters were in the courtroom and supported leniency for him. This doesn't seem to be a very good Christian witness, in my opinion.

[Soloist]

Here is a particularly horrible example of how things shouldn't be done:

https://www.theintelligencer.net/news/c ... -for-rape/

Now, I don't know for sure if the man did what he has been accused and convicted of, but I would say that convictions for this sort of thing (decided by a jury) do generally meet a high bar for evidence. Here is what is troubling:

- The accused perpetrator seemed to show no remorse at all - I guess he is still maintaining he didn't it.
- The victims were socially pressured into not going to the police or reporting the crime, to the point of being outcast or shunned from the Amish community. This is despite the fact that the Amish leadership who is responsible for dealing with these things considered it worth reporting.
- The prosecutor was surprised at how much "support" there was for the perpetrator:

"I was somewhat surprised by the amount of support that he did receive. With that said, every defendant is innocent until proven guilty, and it’s my job to present those facts to the jury so they can make a determination," prosecutor James Peters said. "Even though the community may not have believed these girls, it was pretty clear immediately that the jury did."

He added that when the daughters came forward about their father they were removed from the home through what’s called an Amish restoration team which is similar to Child Protective Services within the Amish community. The team recommended that the children be removed and receive counseling, which they did.

The victims wanted to have a letter read to the perptrator (their father):

"Because we spoke up and told the truth, most of the people in this community think that we are lying and that we are brainwashed,” the letter read. “We cannot see our brothers because of that. I have not seen them for a year.

"In the Amish community, the victims are the ones that are punished, and the perpetrator is thought of as a wonderful guy,” the letter continued. “But even though we are treated bad, I am not sorry that I spoke up. This is a horrible sin that happens way too often, and as long as it’s an Amish person who does it, it is just OK and you should forgive and forget, and not go to the law. We can forgive, but we will never forget. And, Dad, being punished on earth is much better than being punished eternally. God knows everything that happened, and everybody else will too someday."

The letter added that regardless of what people in their community believe, God knows all.

"Read First Corinthians, Chapter Five. Dad, if you would have admitted it all from the start, it wouldn’t have come to this," the letter said.

Unfortunately, this is reminiscent of the Jeriah Mast case (which didn't involve Amish people, but involved a Charity-ish type of denomination), where a great deal of his supporters were in the courtroom and supported leniency for him. This doesn't seem to be a very good Christian witness, in my opinion.

Wife: that is a very sad, sad article. I’m glad that the girls at least seem to still be Christian, and haven’t just thrown away the faith all together after such hypocrisy.

[Grace]

And we have another litigation on social media. This time it is a fundraiser. Apparently, some at Bethesda Christian Fellowship started a fund raiser for Leroy Miller, saying they would like to see he and his wife take a 6-month period of time to rest and recuperate from some 18 years in ministry without a Sabbatical. The fund raiser would tide them over, during this time.

I have to wonder what were they thinking when they made the fund raiser public? Didn't they realize the fundraiser would stir Trudy and her followers, up. No one is forcing anyone to give to Leroy Miller's fund raiser. But from what is being said against the fundraiser you would think they are.

The whole scenario is sad to see.

[anndet92]

Grace, do you think it’s appropriate for Christian people to have a fundraiser for a sexual predator who has not displayed the fruits of repentance?

[Soloist]

Grace, do you think it’s appropriate for Christian people to have a fundraiser for a sexual predator who has not displayed the fruits of repentance?

Is Leroy accused of being such?

[anndet92]

Grace, do you think it’s appropriate for Christian people to have a fundraiser for a sexual predator who has not displayed the fruits of repentance?

Is Leroy accused of being such?

Yes sir.

He stalked Amish girls and exposed himself to them over twenty years ago. Girls in the area were afraid to take walks because there was more than one incident.

Leroy has said he did not have any “victims”. He claimed recently that there were no minors involved, yet court documents show some of the girls were 17. Anyone under 18 is considered a minor by Indiana law.

Leroy’s recent statement claims that he was called by “god” and that no one but “god” can change that. (I have the word “god” in quotations and without capitalization because I do not believe that the real God would ever condone or tolerate the actions of Leroy.) He did not mention the wellbeing of victims in his statement- because again, he doesn’t believe he has any. Yet, court documents show otherwise.

It has been reported that Leroy has counseled young women and has held them on his lap during counseling sessions. This is after he supposedly “repented”.

I personally believe that these things do not meet the criteria for fruits of repentance.

I believe that repentance would look like choosing to not be in leadership positions. It would look like not counseling the very age group that he exposed himself to. It would look like choosing to distance himself from teens instead of stepping into leadership roles for teens.

It would not involve public statements with untruths in them. The public statements would have much emphasis on the wellbeing of the victims instead of the arrogant, self preservation that was shared on social media.

Again - this is my perspective.

I do not believe we would tolerate this behavior if we were talking about an embezzler or a drunkard.

[JohnH]

Leroy has said he did not have any “victims”. He claimed recently that there were no minors involved, yet court documents show some of the girls were 17. Anyone under 18 is considered a minor by Indiana law.

Indeed, there is a very obscure feature of Indiana law where it classifies people as "minors" to determine the severity of a crime, and for this particular crime, it made a distinction between under 16 and over 16. Leroy Miller was apparently an expert in such laws, and used that to make a technically-true-but-quite-misleading statement that "I wasn't convicted for a crime involving a minor". Any reasonable person would think "Oh, ok, nobody was under 18", not "Oh, okay, he means his victims could have been 16 or 17".

It has been reported that Leroy has counseled young women and has held them on his lap during counseling sessions. This is after he supposedly “repented”.

This seems to be a thing Steve Stutzman promotes, which I find quite odd. (Even odder was him promoting a married woman to sit on a marriage counsellor's lap, and/or her husband's, during a counselling session. This is not normal practice, and these rumours keep abounding.)

When doing counselling with a young lady or a couple, in Anabaptist circles (or at least all the ones I've been part of), it is expected the minister's wife attends, and if things of a particularly sensitive nature are discussed sometimes the young lady would visit just with the minister's wife. I would be very concerned about anyone deviating from this.

[mike]

Leroy has said he did not have any “victims”. He claimed recently that there were no minors involved, yet court documents show some of the girls were 17. Anyone under 18 is considered a minor by Indiana law.

Indeed, there is a very obscure feature of Indiana law where it classifies people as "minors" to determine the severity of a crime, and for this particular crime, it made a distinction between under 16 and over 16. Leroy Miller was apparently an expert in such laws, and used that to make a technically-true-but-quite-misleading statement that "I wasn't convicted for a crime involving a minor". Any reasonable person would think "Oh, ok, nobody was under 18", not "Oh, okay, he means his victims could have been 16 or 17".

It has been reported that Leroy has counseled young women and has held them on his lap during counseling sessions. This is after he supposedly “repented”.

This seems to be a thing Steve Stutzman promotes, which I find quite odd. (Even odder was him promoting a married woman to sit on a marriage counsellor's lap, and/or her husband's, during a counselling session. This is not normal practice, and these rumours keep abounding.)

When doing counselling with a young lady or a couple, in Anabaptist circles (or at least all the ones I've been part of), it is expected the minister's wife attends, and if things of a particularly sensitive nature are discussed sometimes the young lady would visit just with the minister's wife. I would be very concerned about anyone deviating from this.

I can't express how stupid and wrong it is for male counselors to have physical contact of any sort beyond simple handshakes with females they are counseling, and how unwise it is for them to engage in one-on-one sessions without a third person present. That said, I have no way of knowing whether the above accusations are true, or whether they are just salacious rumors.

[JohnH]

I can't express how stupid and wrong it is for male counselors to have physical contact of any sort beyond simple handshakes with females they are counseling, and how unwise it is for them to engage in one-on-one sessions without a third person present. That said, I have no way of knowing whether the above accusations are true, or whether they are just salacious rumors.

This is when an outside party who can come in and make a fair but thorough investigation is valuable. This is something that a well structured denomination can do, too.

[anndet92]

Leroy has said he did not have any “victims”. He claimed recently that there were no minors involved, yet court documents show some of the girls were 17. Anyone under 18 is considered a minor by Indiana law.

Indeed, there is a very obscure feature of Indiana law where it classifies people as "minors" to determine the severity of a crime, and for this particular crime, it made a distinction between under 16 and over 16. Leroy Miller was apparently an expert in such laws, and used that to make a technically-true-but-quite-misleading statement that "I wasn't convicted for a crime involving a minor". Any reasonable person would think "Oh, ok, nobody was under 18", not "Oh, okay, he means his victims could have been 16 or 17".

It has been reported that Leroy has counseled young women and has held them on his lap during counseling sessions. This is after he supposedly “repented”.

This seems to be a thing Steve Stutzman promotes, which I find quite odd. (Even odder was him promoting a married woman to sit on a marriage counsellor's lap, and/or her husband's, during a counselling session. This is not normal practice, and these rumours keep abounding.)

When doing counselling with a young lady or a couple, in Anabaptist circles (or at least all the ones I've been part of), it is expected the minister's wife attends, and if things of a particularly sensitive nature are discussed sometimes the young lady would visit just with the minister's wife. I would be very concerned about anyone deviating from this.

Even if we ignore the “technicalities” of the law, this was not a victimless crimes like he claimed. It also does not erase everything else that is wrong with this whole situation.