Oasis Chorale dancing

[seinetsodumm]

I didn't see the performance as I live too far away. I wish I could have though. I enjoy Oasis and have since their very first cd "Treasures in Heaven." I get it though, their music is not everyone's style. That's completely ok. I think that God can be honored and glorified through music that is performed and performed well. I appreciate Oasis' aspiration to sing well. As mentioned earlier by others in this thread, some people may hear the good news of the Gospel through a program like this when they would have never considered stepping into a church under normal circumstances. I have found chorus programs to be an excellent time to invite the neighbors to my church. Folks come who wouldn't come to an ordinary service. My church also host hymns sings that offer a more interactive experience. I thoroughly enjoy both.

Reading over this thread, I thought of Philippians 1:15-18. Verse eighteen reads "What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretense, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."

[JohnH]

I must live in a rather different universe (or state) - when I've attended these things, everyone there is either plain or ex-plain. It's not really something worldly people are invited to.

[Neto]

It seems to me that there might be (even must be?) space to enjoy music, as art and entertainment. But I guess I find that for myself where my mental blockage is, when art, entertainment, and worship are mixed. I think worship should be pure, and while perhaps there is a place on the peripheral that it could be seen as art, there is never place for it to be intentional entertainment. I think the jealousy of God inherently prohibits that.

Perhaps it makes more sense to keep certain vertical songs to God such as praise,(How Great Thou Art) prayer, (Abide with Me) thanksgiving, (For The Beauty Of The Earth) confession, (Just As I Am) and lamentation, (O Sacred Head, Now Wounded) songs off of the stage. Or invite everyone to join in.

And if the position is that singing and art and entertainment are beneficial and important, then perhaps care could be given to sings songs addressed horizontally to people, such as exhortation, (Stand Up Stand Up for Jesus) invitation, (Just As I Am) testimony, (Blessed Assurance) admonition, (Yield Not to Temptation) teaching, (And Can It Be) or songs about God (A Mighty Fortress Is Our God). Or even non-Christian songs.

Perhaps with all the emphasis on music education and the importance of being able to sing well, there is this important distinction above getting missed about which proper songs that should be sung in which different settings.

People stand in front of a group and pray to God all the time on behalf of the entire group, which is often listening and joining in the prayer with their minds and hearts. Why can't we do the same with worship in singing?

I think we can. Somehow, the attitude of the singer(s) comes through. (Personally, my real love of music in the devotional sense came about through a heart-felt solo sung in our congregation.)

[MattY]

Honestly to say that they are a source of liberal/progressive influence is one of the more absurd things I've seen recently.

How would you stack up the rest of the overall message of the performance Sunday night? Unfortunately, I picked up on a rather significant progressive undercurrent.

Suffering was a significant theme; Christ's suffering on the cross, and the suffering of those who are weary, afflicted, and sorrowful. They sang of peace in the midst of suffering, with God's presence, and of hope, now and future. One of the songs, called "Senzeni Na", was fascinating - just two lines on paper, in an African language. First line: "What have we done to deserve this?" in which they began, seated, heads bowed, and a soloist stood up and began asking the question, with others soon beginning to join in. And then, in the second phrase, the hope: "One day, we will meet again in heaven." The "why" doesn't have an answer, and many times, life is that way. But there is hope.

[Ernie]

I don’t believe there is any place, in any culture, where it is ever appropriate for Christians to offer up worship to God, and then demanding a piece of that worship/honor privately for themselves.

I don't either. Though it feels to me that there might be a way to show appreciation to the folks who invested the time/gifts to facilitate the worship, in a way that expresses gratitude for that investment and not "worship" of those gifts.

Ya, I don’t know. Maybe so.
I’m sharing my thoughts here. It’s not something that I find much shared agreement with anymore in my current circles at any rate. Our church hosted it’s first traveling singing group in the last year. I attended it, I felt like the singers were certainly not trying to show off. In fact I would go so far as to say that they really seemed to have a beautiful spirit. I hosted some in my home overnight. And I will be happy to next time too.

I don’t have any difficulty accepting the idea that the performers are pure in heart and intent. At the same time, we all can do imperfect things without knowledge. I’m more interested in the whole idea, than parsing individuals and individual groups.

It’s a head scratching, beard stroking, throat clearing topic for me.

I share your concerns and come out about the same place you do. So you have company.
My wife grew up singing in choirs that sang in other churches, so she doesn't view it from the same perspective as I. But we get along fine.

[joshuabgood]

My son and daughter plan to go hear Oasis Chorale tonight. I'll have to ask them about the dancing.

Well...what is the verdict ?

[mike]

My son and daughter plan to go hear Oasis Chorale tonight. I'll have to ask them about the dancing.

Well...what is the verdict ?

My son said he didn't see any dancing. He said they did some clapping or something, and it was kinda weird. But they enjoyed the concert very much.

[justme]

I was recently made aware that Oasis Chorale performances now involve dancing.

is this entire thread based on hearsay?

[R7ehr]

It seems to me that there might be (even must be?) space to enjoy music, as art and entertainment. But I guess I find that for myself where my mental blockage is, when art, entertainment, and worship are mixed. I think worship should be pure, and while perhaps there is a place on the peripheral that it could be seen as art, there is never place for it to be intentional entertainment. I think the jealousy of God inherently prohibits that.

Perhaps it makes more sense to keep certain vertical songs to God such as praise,(How Great Thou Art) prayer, (Abide with Me) thanksgiving, (For The Beauty Of The Earth) confession, (Just As I Am) and lamentation, (O Sacred Head, Now Wounded) songs off of the stage. Or invite everyone to join in.

And if the position is that singing and art and entertainment are beneficial and important, then perhaps care could be given to sings songs addressed horizontally to people, such as exhortation, (Stand Up Stand Up for Jesus) invitation, (Just As I Am) testimony, (Blessed Assurance) admonition, (Yield Not to Temptation) teaching, (And Can It Be) or songs about God (A Mighty Fortress Is Our God). Or even non-Christian songs.

Perhaps with all the emphasis on music education and the importance of being able to sing well, there is this important distinction above getting missed about which proper songs that should be sung in which different settings.

People stand in front of a group and pray to God all the time on behalf of the entire group, which is often listening and joining in the prayer with their minds and hearts. Why can't we do the same with worship in singing?

Maybe it can. I often lead my family in prayer songs at the table. We all participate, and we close our eyes. But I think your question is more the church setting.

To discern that, let's identify some of the differences. In a normal spoken prayer the prayer is often announced as a participatory action. Something such as "Let us kneel in prayer, while Brother John leads us in prayer." And we customarily close our eyes to shut out visual distractions and help us to focus on the prayer. While verbiage will vary, the understanding that the leader is leading the group in a shared activity is clear. The group is not sitting there watching someone pray.

We would be deeply uncomfortable if there was, lets say, a quartet of people traveling around the country asking to put on public prayer programs. We would be uncomfortable if even one of our own were to go up in front on a stage, and ask people to remain seated, keeping their eyes open while he holds forth a beautifully crafted prayer, complete with gestures. And if any audience member who audibly says "Amen" would be considered to have bad manners for not causing a distraction from the performance. And yet once we tweak this scenario by only adding music, we accept it. Does music being added transform the prayer from prayer to song, thus creating something wholly new and different from prayer, and the prayer is extinguished? Or does music being added merely add a layer, (not unlike a frosting on a cake) onto the prayer, thus retaining the prayer itself?

So is a prayer that is set to music, no longer a prayer, being exempt from how we are told to pray in the New Testament?

I wonder what the prayers in the synagogues were like that Jesus mentioned in Matthew 6. And why Jesus instructed the disciples to pray in their closet, not unlike Daniel. While Daniel did not hide his prayer, he certainly wasn't doing it to be seen. And his audience wasn't invited or in participating or admiring either.

[R7ehr]

I didn't see the performance as I live too far away. I wish I could have though. I enjoy Oasis and have since their very first cd "Treasures in Heaven." I get it though, their music is not everyone's style. That's completely ok. I think that God can be honored and glorified through music that is performed and performed well. I appreciate Oasis' aspiration to sing well. As mentioned earlier by others in this thread, some people may hear the good news of the Gospel through a program like this when they would have never considered stepping into a church under normal circumstances. I have found chorus programs to be an excellent time to invite the neighbors to my church. Folks come who wouldn't come to an ordinary service. My church also host hymns sings that offer a more interactive experience. I thoroughly enjoy both.

Reading over this thread, I thought of Philippians 1:15-18. Verse eighteen reads "What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretense, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."

Philippians 1:15-18 is essentially saying that even people who preach out of selfish motives can be used by God to further the Gospel. Paul is not rejoicing that it was spread with envy, strife, contention, and insincerity (verses15-16), he was rejoicing in spite of the preachers imperfections and flaws. As such, I do think it is somewhat relevant on this topic. God can use anything He wishes. Including a preacher with hidden gross sin, and a singer who mostly loves attention.

Paul is specifically mentioning preaching. And while the deeper aspect of "just be glad that the glory of God is being shared" is probably relevant in an important way, you are touching on one of my next disagreements. Namely, I think that there is a reason that God chose the foolishness of preaching ("For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor. 1:18 and But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness. 1 Cor. 1:23) as the primary method for spreading the word of the Gospel.

We do see Paul and Silas's singing being effective. But they were not singing on a stage in front of an invited group of people. The jailer being impressed was incidental you might say. I think that is probably still the case today, singing from a genuine heart can move people towards God, but I don't think it is very effective in spreading the Gospel. People do come and listen. We had a decent amount of non-Mennonite willing and interested in coming to listen to the program, and I hope for efficacy in moving people closer to God. But I don't know of any who came who didn't already identify as Christians. To the unsaved, the interest in coming to a church to listen to Christian music seems pretty low.

I suspect that our notion of how effective singing is in spreading the Gospel has been influence more by the Fishwrapper Stories, and O. Henry short stories, coupled the difficulty of every other evangelical methods, than by it's effectiveness or historical usage as an evangelical tool.
I think that preaching, whether in church, or to a crowd out of church willing to listen, or "proclaiming" one-on-one to someone, has a more historical success in spreading the gospel, and bringing conviction, than concerts in church or singing on a street corner have had. We are sticklers about quite a few NT things, but praying on the street corner isn't one of them. Again though, Philippians is certainly applicable.