Oasis Chorale dancing

[joshuabgood]

The overarching "concern" in this post I think falls into the context of the other thread where we discussed art. I think it demonstrates that in the CA world art (which includes dance) is looked on quite skeptically/dimly. And it adds credibility to the concern of whomever the "painter" was that was referenced in that thread.

What would it look like if we could be a society that strongly affirms the Oasis' of the world and their stepping into new art forms in ways that are not defiled and, I think, bring glory to God?

Do we confuse Swiss-Germanic stoicism, austerity, order, silence, etc... with holiness/godliness/worshipfulness/etc?

[Valerie]

The overarching "concern" in this post I think falls into the context of the other thread where we discussed art. I think it demonstrates that in the CA world art (which includes dance) is looked on quite skeptically/dimly. And it adds credibility to the concern of whomever the "painter" was that was referenced in that thread.

What would it look like if we could be a society that strongly affirms the Oasis' of the world and their stepping into new art forms in ways that are not defiled and, I think, bring glory to God?

Do we confuse Swiss-Germanic stoicism, austerity, order, silence, etc... with holiness/godliness/worshipfulness/etc?

Scruples? We can fuse these things can’t we?
We know God approved of dance. But in worship form. We know He gave artful skills and music skills to His elect purposefully. God changeth not. I think we can be afraid of the slippery slope as well without really knowing how to discern.

[R7ehr]

The overarching "concern" in this post I think falls into the context of the other thread where we discussed art. I think it demonstrates that in the CA world art (which includes dance) is looked on quite skeptically/dimly. And it adds credibility to the concern of whomever the "painter" was that was referenced in that thread.

What would it look like if we could be a society that strongly affirms the Oasis' of the world and their stepping into new art forms in ways that are not defiled and, I think, bring glory to God?

Do we confuse Swiss-Germanic stoicism, austerity, order, silence, etc... with holiness/godliness/worshipfulness/etc?

For some with objections, the overarching concern is more about performance period. Which may possibly have a little overlap at time and in places with the art appreciation matter. You might be correct on that. We do prioritize humility and practicality, and taking the lower seat at a feast.

However, this is not at all the same overlap of “confuse Swiss-Germanic stoicism, austerity, order, silence, etc... with holiness/godliness/worshipfulness/etc.” I don’t believe there is any place, in any culture, where it is ever appropriate for Christians to offer up worship to God, and then demanding a piece of that worship/honor privately for themselves.

And again, I make a significant distinction between someone dancing and worshiping before the Lord, which I believe is acceptable worship (although as you touched on, it may be against my personal Swiss-German tendencies), and someone dancing and worshiping God and inviting people to come see them do it while requiring their audience to remain silent.

I think that the least they should do if they are going to invite themselves to your house of prayer to have you watch them worship, is to invite you to worship as well.

Fundamentally, I find it to be a weird to invite people to watch you worship, and another layer of weird that you would invite yourself to someone elses church so they can watch you do it.

I would compare it to inviting yourself to someones house, and fixing a gourmet meal in their kitchen, and showing them the food, eating the food, but they can’t help prepare it or eat it. They should just be blessed by the aroma and presentation. I just find it to be an odd phenomenon when I step back and look at the whole thing intellectually.

[joshuabgood]

I don’t believe there is any place, in any culture, where it is ever appropriate for Christians to offer up worship to God, and then demanding a piece of that worship/honor privately for themselves.

I don't either. Though it feels to me that there might be a way to show appreciation to the folks who invested the time/gifts to facilitate the worship, in a way that expresses gratitude for that investment and not "worship" of those gifts.

[R7ehr]

I don’t believe there is any place, in any culture, where it is ever appropriate for Christians to offer up worship to God, and then demanding a piece of that worship/honor privately for themselves.

I don't either. Though it feels to me that there might be a way to show appreciation to the folks who invested the time/gifts to facilitate the worship, in a way that expresses gratitude for that investment and not "worship" of those gifts.

Ya, I don’t know. Maybe so.
I’m sharing my thoughts here. It’s not something that I find much shared agreement with anymore in my current circles at any rate. Our church hosted it’s first traveling singing group in the last year. I attended it, I felt like the singers were certainly not trying to show off. In fact I would go so far as to say that they really seemed to have a beautiful spirit. I hosted some in my home overnight. And I will be happy to next time too.

I don’t have any difficulty accepting the idea that the performers are pure in heart and intent. At the same time, we all can do imperfect things without knowledge. I’m more interested in the whole idea, than parsing individuals and individual groups.

It’s a head scratching, beard stroking, throat clearing topic for me.

[JohnH]

The overarching "concern" in this post I think falls into the context of the other thread where we discussed art. I think it demonstrates that in the CA world art (which includes dance) is looked on quite skeptically/dimly. And it adds credibility to the concern of whomever the "painter" was that was referenced in that thread.

What would it look like if we could be a society that strongly affirms the Oasis' of the world and their stepping into new art forms in ways that are not defiled and, I think, bring glory to God?

Do we confuse Swiss-Germanic stoicism, austerity, order, silence, etc... with holiness/godliness/worshipfulness/etc?

What would it look like?

Well, it might look like the 99% of Christianity that isn’t plain Anabaptist?

There are already plenty of churches and denominations with a full embrace of the arts. Many of us have decided to leave them due to problems such as a lack of youth retention, and aging congregations often to the point they simply close their doors. That doesn’t bring glory to God.

Some of us are not Swiss German, and it might be good to remember that and to listen to “outside” voices. I don’t need a dance performance at church. I don’t need to spectate a dance performance and pretend it is “worship”. Of course, in my church group we don’t have travelling singing groups at all; it is more important to make time and space for our own congregation to sing for each other.

If you want to experience the actual arts in a church service… I suggest you travel out to Redding and attend a Bethel service with phenomenal music production values. Or look for a local decent sized Vineyard affiliate. The one I used to attend in San Diego had one of my friends who would often dance in the back (something I very much appreciated).

However, it is very much a performance and removes the locus of worship from the congregation, and instead makes it something for talented, well trained artists.

[joshuabgood]

However, it is very much a performance and removes the locus of worship from the congregation, and instead makes it something for talented, well trained artists.

I think this is fair concern...which is why upstream I sort of hinted around that maybe what I am envisioning is not part of/considered to be - an assembly of God's people for "church" (or the eklesia) so much as a celebration of art and the gifts God has given for humanity to inspire and enjoy.

[JohnH]

However, it is very much a performance and removes the locus of worship from the congregation, and instead makes it something for talented, well trained artists.

I think this is fair concern...which is why upstream I sort of hinted around that maybe what I am envisioning is not part of/considered to be - an assembly of God's people for "church" (or the eklesia) so much as a celebration of art and the gifts God has given for humanity to inspire and enjoy.

Wouldn’t that just be an art festival? There are lots of those, although AI is completely displacing what “art” even means.

[ohio jones]

Wouldn’t that just be an art festival? There are lots of those...

Ohio Choral Connections seems to fit that description.

[JohnH]

Wouldn’t that just be an art festival? There are lots of those...

Ohio Choral Connections seems to fit that description.

If I want to go to an art festival, I’ll probably pick one that isn’t just ethnic plain background people.

Due to the live acoustics of the auditorium and the nature of this extended Choral festival, this event is not suitable for young children. We appreciate your understanding as we seek to provide the best listening experience for all.
Children may come, but a ticket is required.

I also avoid things that aren’t family friendly.