Trudy Metzger/Steve Stutzman

[Judas Maccabeus]

It appears that this has been properly reported.

So why can’t the “advocates “ simply back off and let the proper authorities do their work?

But that doesn’t get clicks or book sales.

There are times when the legal system doesn't commit the resources that would be needed to investigate an allegation unless there is public interest in the case.

Then there are cases like the Leroy Miller who was mentioned earlier who was investigated, found guilty and punished by the legal system. Then apparently moved to a different state and became a pastor while (allegedly) hiding, minimizing and/or denying his previous conduct. Do the people who are funding his "ministry" and those being "ministered to" by him deserve to know about his past? Or is it all covered by the blood? Does his suitability for ministry depend on whether he is honest and forthcoming about his past? In this case, apparently Trudy thinks it ought to be exposed and SS thinks there's nothing to see here. If indeed all was taken care of previously, why did Miller need to resign and why did the church need to take down his bio page from their website? A mob response is hardly a great way to adjudicate such a situation. But if there hadn't been a great hue and cry, would the church board have done anything about the situation? So many questions, and so few answers.

I cannot fathom how someone with that history could survive the process.

[temporal1]

It appears that this has been properly reported.

So why can’t the “advocates “ simply back off and let the proper authorities do their work?

But that doesn’t get clicks or book sales.

There are times when the legal system doesn't commit the resources that would be needed to investigate an allegation unless there is public interest in the case.

Then there are cases like the Leroy Miller who was mentioned earlier who was investigated, found guilty and punished by the legal system. Then apparently moved to a different state and became a pastor while (allegedly) hiding, minimizing and/or denying his previous conduct. Do the people who are funding his "ministry" and those being "ministered to" by him deserve to know about his past? Or is it all covered by the blood? Does his suitability for ministry depend on whether he is honest and forthcoming about his past? In this case, apparently Trudy thinks it ought to be exposed and SS thinks there's nothing to see here. If indeed all was taken care of previously, why did Miller need to resign and why did the church need to take down his bio page from their website? A mob response is hardly a great way to adjudicate such a situation. But if there hadn't been a great hue and cry, would the church board have done anything about the situation? So many questions, and so few answers.

I cannot fathom how someone with that history could survive the process.

it’s beyond understanding.
https://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?t=8480

[ken_sylvania]

It appears that this has been properly reported.

So why can’t the “advocates “ simply back off and let the proper authorities do their work?

But that doesn’t get clicks or book sales.

There are times when the legal system doesn't commit the resources that would be needed to investigate an allegation unless there is public interest in the case.

Then there are cases like the Leroy Miller who was mentioned earlier who was investigated, found guilty and punished by the legal system. Then apparently moved to a different state and became a pastor while (allegedly) hiding, minimizing and/or denying his previous conduct. Do the people who are funding his "ministry" and those being "ministered to" by him deserve to know about his past? Or is it all covered by the blood? Does his suitability for ministry depend on whether he is honest and forthcoming about his past? In this case, apparently Trudy thinks it ought to be exposed and SS thinks there's nothing to see here. If indeed all was taken care of previously, why did Miller need to resign and why did the church need to take down his bio page from their website? A mob response is hardly a great way to adjudicate such a situation. But if there hadn't been a great hue and cry, would the church board have done anything about the situation? So many questions, and so few answers.

I cannot fathom how someone with that history could survive the process.

I'm not sure what you mean. Could you elaborate?

[Ernie]

I wish it were not necessary for Trudy to obtain this information and publicize it for Leroy to resign. I wish there were another way, yet here we are.

I think the place to start is to take such information to the church leaders.
If the leaders will not remove the pastor or share the information with the church members, then inform the members.

I don't know why the information needs to be shared publicly unless an organization does not do anything about it. Then it can be shared publicly as announcement without attacking people.

[cooper]

I wish it were not necessary for Trudy to obtain this information and publicize it for Leroy to resign. I wish there were another way, yet here we are.

I think the place to start is to take such information to the church leaders.
If the leaders will not remove the pastor or share the information with the church members, then inform the members.

I don't know why the information needs to be shared publicly unless an organization does not do anything about it. Then it can be shared publicly as announcement without attacking people.

The leadership knew about this when they hired Leroy. I’m not sure how someone would get contact information for church members that you’re not a part of.

[temporal1]

The leadership knew about this when they hired Leroy. ..

The #1 problem, no matter setting.
The abusers deny and blame victims, the enablers get sucked in.

It’s all very difficult, no overstating how difficult+painful the ripple effect of sin makes things.

[Neto]

I wish it were not necessary for Trudy to obtain this information and publicize it for Leroy to resign. I wish there were another way, yet here we are.

I think the place to start is to take such information to the church leaders.
If the leaders will not remove the pastor or share the information with the church members, then inform the members.

I don't know why the information needs to be shared publicly unless an organization does not do anything about it. Then it can be shared publicly as announcement without attacking people.

The leadership knew about this when they hired Leroy. I’m not sure how someone would get contact information for church members that you’re not a part of.

I didn't intend to comment or ask questions about any particular person, but it's important to note that the law specifies that there is a responsibility to report breaches of civil law to the authorities. So, and here's the question about one specific person - was this man never convicted of a crime? And if so, in any other situation, do congregations check for convictions before calling a pastor?

Here's something about a case where one congregation sent letters to other congregations within the same denomination about a woman who was excommunicated for unrepentant immorality. But since it was between 'consenting adults' it was not illegal in the eye of the civil government. She sued the church for defamation of character, won, and was awarded such a sum that the small congregation was forced to close, and declare bankruptcy. (This happened back in the small town close to where I grew up in Oklahoma; in the 70's, as I recall now.)

[Grace]

I wish it were not necessary for Trudy to obtain this information and publicize it for Leroy to resign. I wish there were another way, yet here we are.

I think the place to start is to take such information to the church leaders.
If the leaders will not remove the pastor or share the information with the church members, then inform the members.

I don't know why the information needs to be shared publicly unless an organization does not do anything about it. Then it can be shared publicly as announcement without attacking people.

I agree for the most part. I don't think dramatically splashing all the information on Facebook is a good method of "sharing publicly". Which is what has been done.

[JohnH]

I wish it were not necessary for Trudy to obtain this information and publicize it for Leroy to resign. I wish there were another way, yet here we are.

I think the place to start is to take such information to the church leaders.
If the leaders will not remove the pastor or share the information with the church members, then inform the members.

I don't know why the information needs to be shared publicly unless an organization does not do anything about it. Then it can be shared publicly as announcement without attacking people.

The leadership knew about this when they hired Leroy. I’m not sure how someone would get contact information for church members that you’re not a part of.

I was aware of some very weird problems with Jeriah Mast back when he got married (around 2015, I think?) and was then sent off to Haiti. However, I didn’t exactly have good contact info for the church he was part of nor for wherever he was going to in Haiti. And I don’t think anyone would have listened to me anyway.

Regardless of that, someone who had a public conviction of a sex crime already has public info, and I don’t see how it’s wrong to share it publicly. Anyone can look up my past history of speeding, rolling stop signs, and so on. It would be entirely justified to publicly talk about it on social media, if for example, I took a church position as a road safety deacon or something.

[temporal1]

Neto:
.. Here's something about a case where one congregation sent letters to other congregations within the same denomination about a woman who was excommunicated for unrepentant immorality. But since it was between 'consenting adults' it was not illegal in the eye of the civil government. She sued the church for defamation of character, won, and was awarded such a sum that the small congregation was forced to close, and declare bankruptcy. (This happened back in the small town close to where I grew up in Oklahoma; in the 70's, as I recall now.)

Fear of litigation is HUGE.
Fear of “making everything worse” is another.
Fear of CPS making everything worse is another.

i wish the dynamics of why these sins fester and even grow would be dealt with.
i think lots of people get caught up in it who are not at all evil.
often suffering in silence, not knowing what to do. (emphasis on suffering.)