Christian vs non-Christian illegitimacy rates

[Franklin]

My question was neutral, not leading in any way.

Greece currently has an illegitimacy rate over 10%.

Most of the Muslim world, India, China, and Sub-Saharan Africa have no comparable nonmarital-birth statistics—so the original response's "3% of the non-Christian world" figure wasn't a measurement, it was an assumption filling a data vacuum. And within the data that does exist, the pattern doesn't sort by religion the way the argument claimed.

Most of what Claude wrote in your chat is politically correct nonsense, but this point is actually valid. I pushed for references in my chat and Claude only had references to claims, not real numbers. So I/Claude stand corrected here. The conclusion needs to be:

The illegitimacy rate in Christian and post-Christian countries is consistently over 10%. The illegitimacy rate in non-Christian countries generally is unknown because of lack of data. But all major countries where the illegitimacy rate is known to be under 10% are non-Christian.

Is that a fair conclusion?

Off topic, but I now spend significant time in Japan which has a low illegitimacy rate. I like Japan. I hate modern America passionately.

[JohnH]

Is that a fair conclusion?

It isn't. The analysis I posted explained that what you have confused with an "illegitimacy rate" is simply a phenomenon that shows up in both advanced Western countries and in non-Western countries; a common thread is neither of them are places where Christianity is practiced in a widespread fashion.

Japan has an endless amount of perversion that is seemingly sanctioned by society (not that America is necessarily better).

[barnhart]

http://fschmidt.luan.software/christian ... imacy.html

Explanations or thoughts?

I'm not interested in AI but have you considered the character of marriage and sexuality in ancient pagan Rome with the same practices in areas influenced by the early church.

[Soloist]

Wife: there are probably multiple causes, but I would wonder if at least part of it might also have to do with whether or not people carry to term or abort (especially in regards to Japan and China). Also, Muslim countries allow polygamy, may have stiff penalties for ladies getting pregnant, people marry a lot earlier on average.

I do think our culture has an unhealthy acceptance of having children outside of marriage, but I do actually know several women who were promiscuous and into drugs/alcohol ect, and then them getting pregnant was got them serious about cleaning up and getting right with God.

[Franklin]

I'm not interested in AI but have you considered the character of marriage and sexuality in ancient pagan Rome with the same practices in areas influenced by the early church.

Obviously Christianity can work, conservative Anabaptists are proof of that. I suspect that pre-Constantinian Christianity was similar to Anabaptists today. My question is why Christianity generally doesn't work today.

[JohnH]

I'm not interested in AI but have you considered the character of marriage and sexuality in ancient pagan Rome with the same practices in areas influenced by the early church.

Obviously Christianity can work, conservative Anabaptists are proof of that. I suspect that pre-Constantinian Christianity was similar to Anabaptists today. My question is why Christianity generally doesn't work today.

You just answered your own question.

[barnhart]

I'm not interested in AI but have you considered the character of marriage and sexuality in ancient pagan Rome with the same practices in areas influenced by the early church.

Obviously Christianity can work, conservative Anabaptists are proof of that. I suspect that pre-Constantinian Christianity was similar to Anabaptists today. My question is why Christianity generally doesn't work today.

This is worth thinking about.

[Franklin]

Wife: there are probably multiple causes, but I would wonder if at least part of it might also have to do with whether or not people carry to term or abort (especially in regards to Japan and China). Also, Muslim countries allow polygamy, may have stiff penalties for ladies getting pregnant, people marry a lot earlier on average.

I looked up abortion rates for America and Japan, and Japan is lower.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... rtion_rate

If Muslim countries have people marrying earlier and discourage illegitimacy, I would say that is a good thing. Don't you agree?

[barnhart]

Wife: there are probably multiple causes, but I would wonder if at least part of it might also have to do with whether or not people carry to term or abort (especially in regards to Japan and China). Also, Muslim countries allow polygamy, may have stiff penalties for ladies getting pregnant, people marry a lot earlier on average.

I looked up abortion rates for America and Japan, and Japan is lower.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... rtion_rate

If Muslim countries have people marrying earlier and discourage illegitimacy, I would say that is a good thing. Don't you agree?

In general yes. But I don't think you can use religious belief to social engineer utopia without some terrible consequences.

[JohnH]

Wife: there are probably multiple causes, but I would wonder if at least part of it might also have to do with whether or not people carry to term or abort (especially in regards to Japan and China). Also, Muslim countries allow polygamy, may have stiff penalties for ladies getting pregnant, people marry a lot earlier on average.

I looked up abortion rates for America and Japan, and Japan is lower.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... rtion_rate

If Muslim countries have people marrying earlier and discourage illegitimacy, I would say that is a good thing. Don't you agree?

In general yes. But I don't think you can use religious belief to social engineer utopia without some terrible consequences.

One of wonders about “earlier and earlier” always being better, too. The conditions for girls and women in many Muslim countries are appalling, such as in Gaza right now where it’s common to sell 12 year old girls into marriages to older men.