How lenient should we be to lies?

[barnhart]

I think the most effective counter to lies is often to live the truth. There is a place for pointing them out but that is often overrated and more of an exercise in self justification.

[Anthony]

I think the most effective counter to lies is often to live the truth. There is a place for pointing them out but that is often overrated and more of an exercise in self justification.

This is true IMO, i rarely call out lies unless its a serious matter. I find that most people can tell when someone is lying, they just suppress that feeling and continue associating with them anyway. I have only ever called out a lie when i want it followed up by an action, “you lied about X, heres the evidence, you will be fired/punished/removed”. If theres no concrete action taken for lying then it does become more of a self righteous act or even impotent act where I “fought” a lie but really i just argued with someone for 20 minutes.

[JohnH]

If not all lies need to be responded to, how do we decide which to respond to?

I think people can choose what they care to respond to.

But when they do, I think it's best to let the discussion focus on (1) what the claims are and (2) what evidence is given for those claims. If someone won't discuss at the evidence level, and attacks the other person personally instead, that's what abusive liars do.

The simply fact is that this forum is just plain not set up to do that. The best exhibition of that is that is a certain prolific poster who got away with promoting something we all know is false, did so for the better part of a decade, and was successful in recruiting other well-meaning people into supporting the lies / fantasy.

Fighting it (which I did off and on) was not particularly productive, either.

[JohnL]

I think the most effective counter to lies is often to live the truth. There is a place for pointing them out but that is often overrated and more of an exercise in self justification.

This is true IMO, i rarely call out lies unless its a serious matter. I find that most people can tell when someone is lying, they just suppress that feeling and continue associating with them anyway. I have only ever called out a lie when i want it followed up by an action, “you lied about X, heres the evidence, you will be fired/punished/removed”. If theres no concrete action taken for lying then it does become more of a self righteous act or even impotent act where I “fought” a lie but really i just argued with someone for 20 minutes.

Exactly. I just don’t see the point of it unless I’m the boss and an employee is lying about something that affects the job. Calling out every suspected lie every single time would make me a busy body and a self-righteous know it all. The world is full of lies and it will never be done with. I’m pretty sure that’s not what God wants of me.

[JohnH]

Exactly. I just don’t see the point of it unless I’m the boss and an employee is lying about something that affects the job. Calling out every suspected lie every single time would make me a busy body and a self-righteous know it all. The world is full of lies and it will never be done with. I’m pretty sure that’s not what God wants of me.

Not surprised to see my post immediately followed up to with this.

[barnhart]

"Let the lie come into the world, let it triumph, but not through me."

-Alexander Solynitzin in Gulag Archipelago

[JohnL]

"Let the lie come into the world, let it triumph, but not through me."

-Alexander Solynitzin in Gulag Archipelago

I really don’t read his works. I’m not really a fan of Russian authors.

If I’m looking for guidance on practical situations I usually check the book of James when I’m wanting to get a better understanding of how we’re to use our speech. James 4 has a good verse about slanderers who lie to destroy someone’s reputation.
11 Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.
We were raised about setting priorities in dealings with our neighbors. If I think they might not be telling a truth I was taught to leave it be because I’m certainly not their judge and I don’t know what’s going on in that person’s life.
Now like I said, if they’re my employee and their lies affect the job quality that’s a whole different basket of eggs. I would be in charge of the outcomes of the company that employs them and their work ethics and if it’s negatively affecting the company then my responsibility to the company is to keep things moving in the right direction.

[ohio jones]

"Let the lie come into the world, let it triumph, but not through me."

-Alexander Solynitzin in Gulag Archipelago

I really don’t read his works. I’m not really a fan of Russian authors.

What authors do you recommend?

[Bootstrap]

But when they do, I think it's best to let the discussion focus on (1) what the claims are and (2) what evidence is given for those claims. If someone won't discuss at the evidence level, and attacks the other person personally instead, that's what abusive liars do.

The simply fact is that this forum is just plain not set up to do that.

Some of that, I think, is up to us. How do we respond to requests for basic facts? How receptive are we to character assassination?

Also, I do think some things have changed on this forum since that time.

[barnhart]

"Let the lie come into the world, let it triumph, but not through me."

-Alexander Solynitzin in Gulag Archipelago

I really don’t read his works. I’m not really a fan of Russian authors.

You are missing out. I recommend Gulag Archipelago and Dostoyevsky's The Idiot.