Ordinary Magisteriumohio jones wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2026 11:32 amSounds more like medieval Catholicism than anything from historic Anabaptist practice.... members who were chronically disobedient to basic church doctrines an[d] practice ... were asked to explain their actions and repent of doing so by a travelling band of ministers who were not local.
Interested in learning about Holdemans
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Silentreader
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Re: Interested in learning about Holdemans
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Re: Interested in learning about Holdemans
Well, the problem in question was powerful members in local congregations could basically do whatever they want and get away with it, which called for outside intervention.ohio jones wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2026 11:32 amSounds more like medieval Catholicism than anything from historic Anabaptist practice.... members who were chronically disobedient to basic church doctrines an[d] practice ... were asked to explain their actions and repent of doing so by a travelling band of ministers who were not local.
I prefer the outcomes of the Holdemans to whatever the cmc, lmc, and Ohio Conference have turned into. For those of you who are content there, I’m glad for you.
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Re: Interested in learning about Holdemans
Well, maybe, but I know people who faced those "non-panels" and that question. Maybe a clear definition of what those panels were would clear that up.
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Re: Interested in learning about Holdemans
The Holdemans hold to a belief in one, true, visible church. If someone doesn’t believe in that, the Holdemans won’t be a good fit. That doesn’t have anything to do with the panels/interviews, though.
The panels basically were conducted like this:
- An impromptu revival meeting would be called. Technically, this can happen at any time - two or more preachers show up from elsewhere, and revival services are held.
- Revivals consist of preaching until the congregation moves they are ready for self expression.
- As part of revivals, ministers conduct visits with the membership. Both local and visiting ministers or deacons are present. A member can request a meeting, or a minister/deacons can also request one.
- Members have an opportunity to express a lack of confidence in one or more of their local ministers.
- If the visiting and local ministers feel so, they will present to the congregation a desire to go to communion.
- The congregation then moves to do so, or doesn’t.
- The congregation may also move to conduct an ordination after communion.
In 1974, this process was used to allow the conservative majority in a typical congregation to express their dissatisfaction with local, liberalising ministers, removing them from the equation, and for local ministers to be able to deal with liberalising members. So an “interview” would be a meeting where the visiting ministers would ask questions particularly around compliance with stated practice and also with one’s own spiritual health. Nearly everyone in an interview found at least something wrong. Ministers themselves were not included.
About 30% of the membership ultimately ended up expelled. Almost none of these people went to another conservative Mennonite church and instead joined an evangelical type of church or just assimilated into broader society.
Belief or lack thereof in the OTVC was generally not an issue.
As far as I know, other than W-F and the Old Order Amish, this is really the only example of conservatives retaining the institution. All other conservative groups are splits from liberalising churches or conferences. (Perhaps there are a few more in eg German Baptist history or Apostolic Christian which I don’t know as well.)
In the present day, some Holdeman members choose to become mainstream evangelical. Usually it is a “package” of beliefs, almost always:
- that Christians can and should be involved in politics
- that the church can’t impose “extra-biblical” practices
- that the church should not enforce the head covering
- that self defence using self defence is OK
- lack of belief in OTVC and subsequent changes in belief about baptism and communion
- lack of belief in shunning/the avoidance.
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Re: Interested in learning about Holdemans
What is meant by "panels and paneling"? And is this usage of the terms used outside of COGICM?
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A wee little man can’t say, I’m sorry. A big man owns his mistakes and apologizes.
A wee little man trusts himself and his own discernment. A big man is humble enough to know that he needs the counsel and input of others.
A wee little man trusts himself and his own discernment. A big man is humble enough to know that he needs the counsel and input of others.
Re: Interested in learning about Holdemans
I just explained above what they were.
Holdemans call them “the interviews”.
Outsiders tend to call them “the panels”.
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Re: Interested in learning about Holdemans
In what contexts are outsiders familiar with "panels" or "the panels"?
My only context is a panel discussion in which several people talk publicly about a topic. Never something akin to private interviews. So this is new to me.
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A wee little man can’t say, I’m sorry. A big man owns his mistakes and apologizes.
A wee little man trusts himself and his own discernment. A big man is humble enough to know that he needs the counsel and input of others.
A wee little man trusts himself and his own discernment. A big man is humble enough to know that he needs the counsel and input of others.
Re: Interested in learning about Holdemans
Ex-members basically and the very, very small number of non-Holdemans who are interested in Holdeman history.
Terms would be:
“The panels” (preferred by ex members or outsiders who are anti-Holdeman)
“The panel days” (meaning the mid-1970s)
“The interviews” (preferred by Holdeman members)
The context was having a “panel” of ministers and being interviewed. As time went on the number of ministers increased. I have heard of a panel that was 14 ministers interviewing 1 minister. (Said minister described it as a positive experience in his spiritual journey.)My only context is a panel discussion in which several people talk publicly about a topic. Never something akin to private interviews. So this is new to me.
There is a general consensus we would never do them again.
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