What are churches doing to stop predators in the church?

[Valerie]

My “security infrastructure” is simply knowing my church goers for multiple years and their lifelong moral reputation, no 24/7 cameras needed. My discernment is also included.

The problem with this is so often when the truth comes out people are like "I would have never suspected" or "he didn't seem like the type to do this" etc.

If the people who do these things to children were easy to look at and tell them it wouldn't happen as much as it does.

"Lifelong moral reputation " just means a person hasn't been caught yet, it doesn't mean they are safe or innocent.

Shouldn’t the Holy Spirit and the discernment He gives us give us a “sense” there’s something wrong with people that we are in close contact with? I remember years ago I was helping in a ministry at our church called “Stepping into Freedom” for overcoming addictions and any “stronghold” the brother or sister was dealing with. A couple started attending. This couple held a Home group Bible study at their house as we had several such Bible studies in homes. They started coming because of the wife’s struggle with returning to alcohol. But there was something about the husband, even though he was a Bible study leader that I attribute to the Holy Spirit telling me something’s wrong herewith him that just her. She was confessing her weakness, but there was something about him that the Holy Spirit was nudging me about. Lo and behold, this man ended up, murdering his wife. with him that just her. She was confessing her weakness, but there was something about him that the Holy Spirit was nudging me about. Lo and behold this man ended up, murdering his wife! He slowly was poisoning her to make it appear as sickness that took her life.
Point is, isn’t that what the Holy Spirit Himself do in us so that we may do a more thorough job of taking extra steps?
Granted I had nothing concrete on the man who sits in jail now but as soon as I found out it was no surprise to me but I remember wondering why leadership didn’t sense a problem.

[Anthony]

My “security infrastructure” is simply knowing my church goers for multiple years and their lifelong moral reputation, no 24/7 cameras needed. My discernment is also included.

The problem with this is so often when the truth comes out people are like "I would have never suspected" or "he didn't seem like the type to do this" etc.

If the people who do these things to children were easy to look at and tell them it wouldn't happen as much as it does.

"Lifelong moral reputation " just means a person hasn't been caught yet, it doesn't mean they are safe or innocent.

Shouldn’t the Holy Spirit and the discernment He gives us give us a “sense” there’s something wrong with people that we are in close contact with? I remember years ago I was helping in a ministry at our church called “Stepping into Freedom” for overcoming addictions and any “stronghold” the brother or sister was dealing with. A couple started attending. This couple held a Home group Bible study at their house as we had several such Bible studies in homes. They started coming because of the wife’s struggle with returning to alcohol. But there was something about the husband, even though he was a Bible study leader that I attribute to the Holy Spirit telling me something’s wrong herewith him that just her. She was confessing her weakness, but there was something about him that the Holy Spirit was nudging me about. Lo and behold, this man ended up, murdering his wife. with him that just her. She was confessing her weakness, but there was something about him that the Holy Spirit was nudging me about. Lo and behold this man ended up, murdering his wife! He slowly was poisoning her to make it appear as sickness that took her life.
Point is, isn’t that what the Holy Spirit Himself do in us so that we may do a more thorough job of taking extra steps?
Granted I had nothing concrete on the man who sits in jail now but as soon as I found out it was no surprise to me but I remember wondering why leadership didn’t sense a problem.

I agree with this, beyond policies there is absolutely room for discernment and the Spirits guidance. I know of 1 man whos a convicted sex offender, and one man in my family who was accused of such, both cases it felt obvious to me these men were unsafe and unstable. Their only “defenders” were close family who i assume were embarrassed and insisted they changed / its all a lie.

I imagine most people do sense a problem, they just brush it under the rug and try to overcome their feelings.

[Soloist]

I once commented to a friend that someone on tv smelled like dirt. He was astonished and said he was found out to be a sex offender. I personally meant the earthy kind of dirt but

Later I remember when someone who was meek and humble was found out to be a offender as well after going to prison another man made the comment "I always knew something was wrong"
That really bothered me as if you know something is wrong for years and you do nothing or are you saying it to look better?

[mike]

How much of this sort of abuse happens in church buildings or meetings? I would have expected the majority of abuse to happen in more private settings.

Glass doors and such may serve a purpose but I think the larger danger lies in the culture of cover up and down playing consequences as KrisKramer's experience has pointed out.

Sure, and many other cultural and human factors. Such as not paying attention to what one's children are doing for extended periods. That happens far more than it should, and it's very easy to fall into.

[Southerner]

Glass doors and such may serve a purpose but I think the larger danger lies in the culture of cover up and down playing consequences as KrisKramer's experience has pointed out.

Parents also need to educate children at a young age about appropriate touch...a close Groffdale friend and I discussed this recently and he started telling his children when they were 5 years old about appropriate vs inappropriate touching.

[Soloist]

Glass doors and such may serve a purpose but I think the larger danger lies in the culture of cover up and down playing consequences as KrisKramer's experience has pointed out.

Parents also need to educate children at a young age about appropriate touch...a close Groffdale friend and I discussed this recently and he started telling his children when they were 5 years old about appropriate vs inappropriate touching.

Also to keep doors open.

The biggest thing I see is adults get off in deep conversations and have no idea where their children even are or who they are with.

[KrisKramer]

Glass doors and such may serve a purpose but I think the larger danger lies in the culture of cover up and down playing consequences as KrisKramer's experience has pointed out.

Parents also need to educate children at a young age about appropriate touch...a close Groffdale friend and I discussed this recently and he started telling his children when they were 5 years old about appropriate vs inappropriate touching.

It can happen before age 5. I was 3&4. Who knows how many more years it would have continued if my Grandmother hadn't left and made a fuss.

[Soloist]

Glass doors and such may serve a purpose but I think the larger danger lies in the culture of cover up and down playing consequences as KrisKramer's experience has pointed out.

Parents also need to educate children at a young age about appropriate touch...a close Groffdale friend and I discussed this recently and he started telling his children when they were 5 years old about appropriate vs inappropriate touching.

It can happen before age 5. I was 3&4. Who knows how many more years it would have continued if my Grandmother hadn't left and made a fuss.

It can happen younger too but you need the child to understand and a 3 year old is on the edge of that to begin with. I don't always know if my 4 year old is saying someone did something because they did or if she thinks its the right answer. (general child discipline stuff)

[JohnH]

Glass doors and such may serve a purpose but I think the larger danger lies in the culture of cover up and down playing consequences as KrisKramer's experience has pointed out.

Parents also need to educate children at a young age about appropriate touch...a close Groffdale friend and I discussed this recently and he started telling his children when they were 5 years old about appropriate vs inappropriate touching.

It can happen before age 5. I was 3&4. Who knows how many more years it would have continued if my Grandmother hadn't left and made a fuss.

Yet, as a church, it is entirely reasonable to “allow” grandchildren to be with grandparents.

Are churches somehow supposed start policing grandparents and grandchildren? I cannot see how a church is supposed to figure this out or even be involved at all.

[R7ehr]

We were building a new church house around the Jeriah Mast molestation and Sasha Krause murder, and school-shootings-in-the-news era. I was the building project chairman, and school board member, and I thought it would be good to take these into happanings into account. The couple things we did, was to get classroom doors with small clear vertical windows in them. They are probably about 4” wide by 16” high.
Since the school I attended had these same windows, and those teacher tended to cover the windows because students in the hallway would peer in, or students in the classroom would be distracted by people walking past, our current school told the teachers at this new school that they weren’t allowed to cover them up.

We ran cctv cables to all the rooms in the building, and to every side of the exterior for cameras. However, once the building was being finished out, we decided that was overkill. So we ended up installing the cameras on the exterior of the building, and one in the utilities/storage/mechanical/laundry room that has no windows, and one camera inside the foyer. None in the classrooms etc. Here we are 6 years later, cameras are up, but still not turned on. I should probably take care of that.

So these are some tangible things that were a direct result of those tragedies. Further, because these were done in a church construction context, it spured thought and conversation within the whole church group on these topics that went beyond wires and glass, and into culture and group expectations. And those conversations are likely to be more instrumental in safeguarding children longterm than the physical steps take .