What are churches doing to stop predators in the church?

[JohnH]

Now is a very different time than 20 or so years ago.

I wish so.

In terms of applicable law and cultural expectations on how to handle such things.

[Junior2877]

You have to investigate enough to decide if you “report” or not. It is a law enforcement function where a minister, Sunday school teachers etc is acting as an agent on behalf of the state.

You’re acting like conducting these investigations and being an agent of the state is simple, yet it is not, and in any case, these laws are relatively new and didn’t exist before 1995 (PA) or so.

I generally am far more concerned with what the Bible teaches us to do (and which was the OP’s concern) than what the state wants us to do.

No one is "investigating"; we simply respond to what we have been told or seen personally. If it is "what we have been told", we do have to weigh the reliability of the one reporting the information. If we reasonably believe that abuse has taken place, we report. It is largely based on what a reasonable person would do. In my state, we do not report to the police, but report to CPS. CPS sends out a nurse or social worker. We are not "acting as an agent of the state," we are taking action to protect our children. Paul reported a crime to the state, if someone has disobeyed the state's law in that manner, the state bears the sword to punish wrongdoers. We can't claim the exception of obeying God or man as this sort of thing is an affront to God as well as the state.

As I said, we do not hold inquisitions or investigations similar to the "paneling" process that you are no doubt familiar with.

It most certainly does make ministers agents of the state. As I have said before, should they give a Miranda warning before hearing a confession?

Maybe some things are the states business? For example, if your son accidentally kills a homeless man with his car, and then tells you, I'm so sorry but let's not tell anyone dad. Will you call the police anyway? Or persuade him to confess to police? Either way does that make you an agent of the state? I think some things just are the states business. Render to Cesar etc...

[JohnH]

Maybe some things are the states business? For example, if your son accidentally kills a homeless man with his car, and then tells you, I'm so sorry but let's not tell anyone dad. Will you call the police anyway? Or persuade him to confess to police? Either way does that make you an agent of the state? I think some things just are the states business. Render to Cesar etc...

A difference is I have not entered into an agreement with the state to be obligated to do so.

When one becomes a minister, one agrees to the state to be an agent of the state who will conduct limited investigations for them.

(Or on PA. When one becomes Sunday school superintendent, trustee/janitor…)

[Judas Maccabeus]

Maybe some things are the states business? For example, if your son accidentally kills a homeless man with his car, and then tells you, I'm so sorry but let's not tell anyone dad. Will you call the police anyway? Or persuade him to confess to police? Either way does that make you an agent of the state? I think some things just are the states business. Render to Cesar etc...

A difference is I have not entered into an agreement with the state to be obligated to do so.

When one becomes a minister, one agrees to the state to be an agent of the state who will conduct limited investigations for them.

(Or on PA. When one becomes Sunday school superintendent, trustee/janitor…)

No such agreement exists in Maryland. I have a meeting with our bishop on Friday, but I have my doubts if we have agreed to anything except to follow the law like everyone else. I personally have never agreed to become an agent of the state, as you call it.

If Holdenan churches decline to report abusers, they are unsafe, full stop. Haven’t you all learned anything?

[JohnH]

Maybe some things are the states business? For example, if your son accidentally kills a homeless man with his car, and then tells you, I'm so sorry but let's not tell anyone dad. Will you call the police anyway? Or persuade him to confess to police? Either way does that make you an agent of the state? I think some things just are the states business. Render to Cesar etc...

A difference is I have not entered into an agreement with the state to be obligated to do so.

When one becomes a minister, one agrees to the state to be an agent of the state who will conduct limited investigations for them.

(Or on PA. When one becomes Sunday school superintendent, trustee/janitor…)

No such agreement exists in Maryland. I have a meeting with our bishop on Friday, but I have my doubts if we have agreed to anything except to follow the law like everyone else. I personally have never agreed to become an agent of the state, as you call it.

If Holdenan churches decline to report abusers, they are unsafe, full stop. Haven’t you all learned anything?

You can’t be a minister without agreeing to be a mandated reporter. So, pretty much every minister at this point is agreeing to do so. (A handful are breaking the law, I’m sure.)

The point is that every minister in compliance is also an agent of the state who has to make judgment calls of when to proceed with an investigation and then when to report the results of that investigation per the mandated reporter law.

Nothing I have said has any relevance to Holdeman churches versus any others, although Holdeman churches seem to be in much better compliance viz their size versus, say, Charity.

[KrisKramer]

I am interested to know if you have been able to find beneficial help in healing and if you have been helped to forgive and be restored, and how is your faith presently?
Is there adequate help/counseling these victims?

Why would I forgive someone who has never asked for forgiveness?
Do you know i almost have a panic attack whenever someone makes the "sucking sound" with their teeth.(I don't know how to explain the sound I mean)
I had to stop seeing one dentist because the way he talked was the exact same pitch cadence as my grandfather.

Things like this done to children effect you the rest of your life. I don't know if someone who hasn't lived it can ever understand.

"How is my faith" ......... I will never trust a church to be a safe place. They have never proven themselves to be. As for God, to be honest, if he exists, I think he owes me and all other children who have gone through something like this a huge apology. If he is love where was he when this was happening to me and other children?

I enjoy discussing religion and philosophy but I am not sure God exists and you can thank my grandfather for some of that doubt.

But forgiveness....... I refuse to forgive someone who has never apologized.

Kris

[Judas Maccabeus]

A difference is I have not entered into an agreement with the state to be obligated to do so.

When one becomes a minister, one agrees to the state to be an agent of the state who will conduct limited investigations for them.

(Or on PA. When one becomes Sunday school superintendent, trustee/janitor…)

No such agreement exists in Maryland. I have a meeting with our bishop on Friday, but I have my doubts if we have agreed to anything except to follow the law like everyone else. I personally have never agreed to become an agent of the state, as you call it.

If Holdenan churches decline to report abusers, they are unsafe, full stop. Haven’t you all learned anything?

You can’t be a minister without agreeing to be a mandated reporter. So, pretty much every minister at this point is agreeing to do so. (A handful are breaking the law, I’m sure.)

The point is that every minister in compliance is also an agent of the state who has to make judgment calls of when to proceed with an investigation and then when to report the results of that investigation per the mandated reporter law.

Nothing I have said has any relevance to Holdeman churches versus any others, although Holdeman churches seem to be in much better compliance viz their size versus, say, Charity.

None of our ministry has agreed in advance to be mandated reporters. Wherever did you get that. The state cannot set criteria for our ministry, or we would disobey out of conviction. The state considers you a mandatory reporter, unilaterally, regardless of our agreement. Those policies have only minimal impact on how we function. If a situation came to our attention that would need reporting under current law, it would be reported, law or not.

Trying to handle stuff like this internally is how the historic situations happened in the first place.

So, since you would decline to report, least you become an “agent of the state “ I am justified in saying churches that take that position are unsafe?

[Judas Maccabeus]

Now is a very different time than 20 or so years ago.

I wish so.

We sure try. That is the most we can do. People are more aware of it now.

[Soloist]

Wife: I am really sorry for all the pain your family had to go through. I understand your thoughts, although I do think that God is very grieved by the sin and subsequent cover up as well. All too often, the sins of those who are supposed to be leading people to God cause them to reject God.

Rom 2:17  But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast in God
Rom 2:18  and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed from the law;
Rom 2:19  and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,
Rom 2:20  an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth—
Rom 2:21  you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal?
Rom 2:22  You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
Rom 2:23  You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law.
Rom 2:24  For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”

[JayP]

Funny, in many situations folks ask “what would Jesus do?” Or are there explicit teachings on this.
I endorse millstones.