God Bless the USA inscribed on munitions

[JohnH]

I’m not debating anything, just pointing out the argument you’ve been making ever since the war started.

And I think you're grossly misrepresenting me, but if you want to debate that, there are places we can discuss a war that started in 2026 other than a subforum called "History".

[Szdfan]

I’m not debating anything, just pointing out the argument you’ve been making ever since the war started.

And I think you're grossly misrepresenting me, but if you want to debate that, there are places we can discuss a war that started in 2026 other than a subforum called "History".

I’m not debating anything. I’ve read what you wrote. Have you?

[temporal1]

CM versus lib Anabaptist views help with discernment

T1, I hear the term libs or lib Anabaptist thrown around. What is your definition of a lib/lib Anabaptist?
I have friends and family who are very conservative politically and liberal politically and often that also translates into their theological- for lack of a better word- beliefs. But then it is interesting that the conservatives will accuse [describe] someone of being liberal and that same person is accused described of being conservative by folks who lean left.
There are many folks who have leanings that are maybe on the liberal side but also on the conservative side. And most of them are very 'conservative' when it comes to their biblical beliefs. Again- conservative for lack of a better word.

So I am really curious- what makes you classify a person as liberal and what makes you classify someone as conservative?

haha. so true. my impression is, all churches now have a range/spectrum, wanted or not. when i first registered on MD, i had no idea of ranges, at all. i didn’t know anything about MCUSA versus Amish, really. a real neophyte.

at that time, lots of people were feeling abandoned by their churches, from reading forum introductions, most are seeking scripturally-centered leadership, in my case, i hoped Mennonites might be a place not disturbed by conflict, i wondered if there was something unique that prevented sin. i found humans. this wasn’t a great surprise or disappointment, it was just reality. i’d read the Bible, so. i knew about humans.

on forum i found humans of all description with one unifying interest: Jesus Christ
i credit this common interest with the forum’s longevity.

From what i’ve read, this is where Anabaptists began. Not with labels or names. With reading scriptures, wanting to live according to scriptures. Which, early on, caused havoc. Reading scriptures is a timeless pursuit.

i find those who actually read scriptures will find common ground with Anabaptists.
This is reflected on forum, with its mixed experience background. Even an occasional atheist.

So, my outside view is MCUSA is generally liberal, including voting, virtually no restraints on politics, often divorce+remarriage are ok, no church dress standards, WIM - - to others, not voting, no internet, dress standards and covering, no WIM, no divorce ..
and everything in between. A few special members left the forum due to fellowship requirements to leave the internet.

None of this is from my real life experience.

One of my early interests in Mennonites was because i sensed Mennonite beliefs in my own family - yet, no family stories or references to it. Still, the thoughts/questions nagged me.

Dabbling in genealogy, i discovered Quaker and Anabaptist roots, some going back to the 1600’s Switzerland.
i have a hunch this is much more common than would be thought. Families split, churches split, wars happen, life can be hard and busy. People fail to pass along history - and/or, they deliberately hide history for any number of reasons, not all negative.

Truth cannot be contained, it gets passed down, in spite of earthly efforts+circumstances. God’s brilliant design.

i’ve been relieved to have not found slave owners or Anabaptist persecutors in my family history.
i had no idea. (of course the present cultural expectation is guilty.)

Anyway. i hope that comes close to answering your question(s). i’m in a continual process of learning, not great at it.

i would change your word, accused, to described, and, i agree with you, there are ranges within ranges.
i’m not well informed of details like you would be. i just read from the outside.

Robert was strongly MCUSA, but (i think) conservative in many ways, and heartbroken over divisions, like (most?) of us?
if i recall, he was warmly invited to cM groups, i’m sure he appreciated it and knew it was sincere.
i was sorry he didn’t act on it, i’m sure he had valid, informed reasons, i thought he could have been happy (somewhere) in cM land.

[QuietlyListening]

Anyway. i hope that comes close to answering your question(s).

Not really. You give history, explanations from other sources, but what is YOUR definition since you describe people on this board as libs or lib Anabaptist. What makes you, yourself, describe someone as liberal vs conservative. Not someone else's words but again, how would you describe a liberal?

[temporal1]

Anyway. i hope that comes close to answering your question(s).

Not really. You give history, explanations from other sources, but what is YOUR definition since you describe people on this board as libs or lib Anabaptist. What makes you, yourself, describe someone as liberal vs conservative. Not someone else's words but again, how would you describe a liberal?

.. So, my outside view is MCUSA is generally liberal, including voting, virtually no restraints on politics, often divorce+remarriage are ok, no church dress standards, WIM - - to others, not voting, no internet, dress standards and covering, no WIM, no divorce .. and everything in between. A few special members left the forum due to fellowship requirements to leave the internet.

(i believe) the forum’s moderators are on a range (?) my perception.
i think of myself as conservative Christian, conservative in most ways.

[Ernie]

As citizens of the United States who participate in this society to some degree or another, how separate are we really from the American Empire regardless of our loyalties?

It is up to every individual how separate he or she wants to be. The more separate we are, the more we can honestly distance ourselves from anything the Empire says or does and promote a different kingdom.

There are limits to the degree of separation for most of us. Even plain Anabaptists who pay their taxes are still indirectly contributing to the military budget.

From comments I read online about what people think of Plain Anabaptists, many think they don't pay taxes. (when it is only social security taxes that some don't pay) Sometimes someone will point out that Plain Anabaptists pay for public schools even though they don't benefit from them, and that everyone's taxes would be higher if they all sent their children to public school. And many people think that Plain Anabaptists are not contributing to the Empire, because they won't do their civic duty by voting and because they enjoy freedoms that they did not help fight for.

All this to say that the public generally thinks that Plain Anabaptists are not doing their fair share at contributing to the Empire. But if and when they see Anabaptists participating in protests and attending political functions and rallies, they conclude that such Anabaptists are not very separate and contributing to the Empire.

[ohio jones]

(i believe) the forum’s moderators are on a range (?) my perception.

I'm on a chair, myself. It does not have "God Bless the USA" inscribed on it.

[temporal1]

(i believe) the forum’s moderators are on a range (?) my perception.

I'm on a chair, myself. It does not have "God Bless the USA" inscribed on it.

Don’t sit on munitions, either, inscribed or not.

[Grace]

It is up to every individual how separate he or she wants to be. The more separate we are, the more we can honestly distance ourselves from anything the Empire says or does and promote a different kingdom.

There are limits to the degree of separation for most of us. Even plain Anabaptists who pay their taxes are still indirectly contributing to the military budget.

From comments I read online about what people think of Plain Anabaptists, many think they don't pay taxes. (when it is only social security taxes that some don't pay) Sometimes someone will point out that Plain Anabaptists pay for public schools even though they don't benefit from them, and that everyone's taxes would be higher if they all sent their children to public school. And many people think that Plain Anabaptists are not contributing to the Empire, because they won't do their civic duty by voting and because they enjoy freedoms that they did not help fight for.

All this to say that the public generally thinks that Plain Anabaptists are not doing their fair share at contributing to the Empire. But if and when they see Anabaptists participating in protests and attending political functions and rallies, they conclude that such Anabaptists are not very separate and contributing to the Empire.

Not only to plain Anabaptist pay to educate the public's children and the public doesn't pay to educate theirs, but via taxes, they pay into many of the government aid programs, and don't use them. Examples would be welfare, SNAP, EBT cards, etc. Plain Anabaptists usually help their own when needs arise.

I ran into a highly educated geologist once on a job site hubby was working on. When he saw I was a Mennonite it didn't take him very long to tell me he does not appreciate the plain community because they don't pay taxes. I was shocked at his lack of knowledge. I took a substantial amount of time to kindly and respectfully to correct his incorrect thinking. He was a bit shocked at how wrong he was and thanked me for filling him in on the truth. He said he will tell his friends who also believed that the plain community doesn't pay taxes.

Yes, it is true I don't like how the government uses our tax money, especially for wars, but we are told in the scriptures to give unto Caesar, what is Caesar's.

[Valerie]

There are limits to the degree of separation for most of us. Even plain Anabaptists who pay their taxes are still indirectly contributing to the military budget.

From comments I read online about what people think of Plain Anabaptists, many think they don't pay taxes. (when it is only social security taxes that some don't pay) Sometimes someone will point out that Plain Anabaptists pay for public schools even though they don't benefit from them, and that everyone's taxes would be higher if they all sent their children to public school. And many people think that Plain Anabaptists are not contributing to the Empire, because they won't do their civic duty by voting and because they enjoy freedoms that they did not help fight for.

All this to say that the public generally thinks that Plain Anabaptists are not doing their fair share at contributing to the Empire. But if and when they see Anabaptists participating in protests and attending political functions and rallies, they conclude that such Anabaptists are not very separate and contributing to the Empire.

Not only to plain Anabaptist pay to educate the public's children and the public doesn't pay to educate theirs, but via taxes, they pay into many of the government aid programs, and don't use them. Examples would be welfare, SNAP, EBT cards, etc. Plain Anabaptists usually help their own when needs arise.

I ran into a highly educated geologist once on a job site hubby was working on. When he saw I was a Mennonite it didn't take him very long to tell me he does not appreciate the plain community because they don't pay taxes. I was shocked at his lack of knowledge. I took a substantial amount of time to kindly and respectfully to correct his incorrect thinking. He was a bit shocked at how wrong he was and thanked me for filling him in on the truth. He said he will tell his friends who also believed that the plain community doesn't pay taxes.

Yes, it is true I don't like how the government uses our tax money, especially for wars, but we are told in the scriptures to give unto Caesar, what is Caesar's.

I think all of us, Christians or not, have problems with how some of our tax money is spent for sure.

I have had to enlighten people many times that Smish do indeed pay taxes AND do not take from government that they pay into (although many will come back with ways they do benefit) just saying it’s a common misconception they don’t pay taxes.

Regarding building an “Empire” I do not believe that is how Christians feel about their purism for voting. That’s why many of us don’t agree with MAGA as in being prideful of our “power” however I grew up as many Christians did with the belief our founding fathers, many, were God fearing people with Gofly intentions for our nation and that it was for the most part a Judeo-Christian nation ( nations are generally known for their predominant religion) but we believed Smerica should be an example of a God fearing nation- we have failed in many ways. Yet I continue to pray & pray- before Christs second advent the world will be pretty apostate.