What are churches doing to stop predators in the church?

[Ernie]

It is a fixed problem when discussion were tried to be had shortly before Mose Stoltzfus passed away and the church refused to listen and deemed Harold an "upstanding man"?

I would note most of us here consider the EPMC beyond salvaging.

What does EPMC have to do with this?

[JohnH]

It is a fixed problem when discussion were tried to be had shortly before Mose Stoltzfus passed away and the church refused to listen and deemed Harold an "upstanding man"?

I would note most of us here consider the EPMC beyond salvaging.

What does EPMC have to do with this?

The origins of Harold Herr, which is the part I have heard first or second hand accounts of.

I think we have people here who can speak on behalf of what happened with him at Hope Fellowship and CAM.

My main action I took was to ask our church library and our denomination’s book distributor to stop distributing Herr’s books and to take a more critical eye at books that paint CAM and specific CAM missionaries in a positive light without a deeper look into the character of such people.

[Southerner]

It is a fixed problem when discussion were tried to be had shortly before Mose Stoltzfus passed away and the church refused to listen and deemed Harold an "upstanding man"?

I would note most of us here consider the EPMC beyond salvaging.

What does EPMC have to do with this?

Nothing, really. HH was from Lancaster Conference and taught school in WF, Eastern...I assume Hope...where else???

Questions I have...did his family/ victims report him and if "no", why not? He portrayed his wife as mentally ill. I assume he was charismatic???

[Southerner]

I generally am far more concerned with what the Bible teaches us to do (and which was the OP’s concern) than what the state wants us to do.

What does the Bible say to do? I had a terrible experience w a groomer when I was young...after the incident my dad wanted to kill him. Is this what the Bible recommends...please inform me.

[ohio jones]

I would note most of us here consider the EPMC beyond salvaging.

What does EPMC have to do with this?

Nothing, really. HH was from Lancaster Conference and taught school in WF, Eastern...

Eastern is short for EPMC and Related Areas, isn't it?

[Soloist]

I generally am far more concerned with what the Bible teaches us to do (and which was the OP’s concern) than what the state wants us to do.

What does the Bible say to do? I had a terrible experience w a groomer when I was young...after the incident my dad wanted to kill him. Is this what the Bible recommends...please inform me.

Wife: this is a hard question to answer. I would think that, In relation to our governments laws, we should comply, because this is part of the reason we have a government (Roman’s 13). Otherwise, I would think about sections of the Bible talking about a watchmen that does not sound a warning having blood on his hands. I would not agree with the idea of killing the person although I can totally imagine myself wanting to if it were one of my children.

I think forgiveness and protecting the innocent can go together, and even if the law was never involved, ensuring separation from victims or potential future victims would be appropriate. Even if the person has genuinely repented, there’s no need to subject them to unnecessary temptation. Just like how many men choose never to be alone in the company of a lady because of temptation or simply protecting their reputation.

[Judas Maccabeus]

You do realize that I have been to those meetings, and the report will be forwarded to a unit of the state police? In my fine state simply contacting CPS is a report? It is not leadership’s role to investigate. It is our role to report.

Than again, we do not have “paneling” or other such investigative functions.

You have to investigate enough to decide if you “report” or not. It is a law enforcement function where a minister, Sunday school teachers etc is acting as an agent on behalf of the state.

You’re acting like conducting these investigations and being an agent of the state is simple, yet it is not, and in any case, these laws are relatively new and didn’t exist before 1995 (PA) or so.

I generally am far more concerned with what the Bible teaches us to do (and which was the OP’s concern) than what the state wants us to do.

No one is "investigating"; we simply respond to what we have been told or seen personally. If it is "what we have been told", we do have to weigh the reliability of the one reporting the information. If we reasonably believe that abuse has taken place, we report. It is largely based on what a reasonable person would do. In my state, we do not report to the police, but report to CPS. CPS sends out a nurse or social worker. We are not "acting as an agent of the state," we are taking action to protect our children. Paul reported a crime to the state, if someone has disobeyed the state's law in that manner, the state bears the sword to punish wrongdoers. We can't claim the exception of obeying God or man as this sort of thing is an affront to God as well as the state.

As I said, we do not hold inquisitions or investigations similar to the "paneling" process that you are no doubt familiar with.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I generally am far more concerned with what the Bible teaches us to do (and which was the OP’s concern) than what the state wants us to do.

What does the Bible say to do? I had a terrible experience w a groomer when I was young...after the incident my dad wanted to kill him. Is this what the Bible recommends...please inform me.

I don't know what happened years ago. If you reported it to your ministry today, it would almost certainly be reported if it were actual abuse. If it were just "this guy is creepy, that is more difficult to answer. If the investigation produced evidence of abuse, he would be committed to the justice of the state.

Now is a very different time than 20 or so years ago.

[JohnH]

You do realize that I have been to those meetings, and the report will be forwarded to a unit of the state police? In my fine state simply contacting CPS is a report? It is not leadership’s role to investigate. It is our role to report.

Than again, we do not have “paneling” or other such investigative functions.

You have to investigate enough to decide if you “report” or not. It is a law enforcement function where a minister, Sunday school teachers etc is acting as an agent on behalf of the state.

You’re acting like conducting these investigations and being an agent of the state is simple, yet it is not, and in any case, these laws are relatively new and didn’t exist before 1995 (PA) or so.

I generally am far more concerned with what the Bible teaches us to do (and which was the OP’s concern) than what the state wants us to do.

No one is "investigating"; we simply respond to what we have been told or seen personally. If it is "what we have been told", we do have to weigh the reliability of the one reporting the information. If we reasonably believe that abuse has taken place, we report. It is largely based on what a reasonable person would do. In my state, we do not report to the police, but report to CPS. CPS sends out a nurse or social worker. We are not "acting as an agent of the state," we are taking action to protect our children. Paul reported a crime to the state, if someone has disobeyed the state's law in that manner, the state bears the sword to punish wrongdoers. We can't claim the exception of obeying God or man as this sort of thing is an affront to God as well as the state.

As I said, we do not hold inquisitions or investigations similar to the "paneling" process that you are no doubt familiar with.

It most certainly does make ministers agents of the state. As I have said before, should they give a Miranda warning before hearing a confession?

[Southerner]

Now is a very different time than 20 or so years ago.

I wish so.