Perception of (Remote) Tech Workers as Seekers?

[Esdras]

My background is in IT and I’ve been working remotely for some years now (despite a recent bout of unemployment). I wanted to ask what the perception of Tech Workers would be in Anabaptist communities that use technologies?

My understanding is that Mennonites and Beachy Amish use technology. How would they view a tech savvy seeker? Might some of the businesses in these communities have consulting needs if offered by a seeker, etc.

Thanks in advance!

[JohnH]

Less-conservative groups tend to embrace a lot of technology, often with an idea towards limiting it which in practice tends to fall by the wayside quickly. An example is Internet filters, which less-conservative groups don't use. Many of these groups (particularly Beachy Amish-Mennonites) are "transitional"; that is, they accept an influx of members from more-conservative groups and also suffer an outflow of members who leave for less-conservative groups.

More-conservative/traditionalist groups tend to avoid technology. Some avoid smartphones; others avoid Internet in the home; some avoid computers altogether beyond a word processor. Some wouldn't even do that and would rather a basic dial telephone and just a typewriter. The more traditional groups avoid technology like cars and even tractors as well.

Might some of the businesses in these communities have consulting needs if offered by a seeker, etc.

The plain community's technology needs tend to be very well served by local businesses run by either plain people or ex-plain people. If you are exist in plain circles long enough, you might eventually end up becoming one of those people. Most seekers end up moving away from a lifestyle based on a remote job doing typical computer type of work, though.

[Anthony]

I am from a Tech seeker background and I joined a very conservative church, it was generally seen as a positive and I am seen as very computer/technology savvy and intelligent overall, but clueless when it comes to farming and construction (broadly accurate). I currently work in a trade, the transition has been very smooth. Many seekers seem to have engineering/educated backgrounds, so it would honestly not be out of place.

If you join a more moderate church, i imagine almost no one would take much notice at your job.

[JohnH]

I currently work in a trade, the transition has been very smooth.

What trade did you transition to? I would describe my own transition as the opposite of smooth.

[Anthony]

I currently work in a trade, the transition has been very smooth.

What trade did you transition to? I would describe my own transition as the opposite of smooth.

Electrician, i got a job through someone in my church. What wasnt smooth about yours?

[JohnH]

Electrician, i got a job through someone in my church. What wasnt smooth about yours?

Couple of things. One factor is probably being too old (I attempted to transition at 32). Other factor was simply picking the wrong thing to go into - I started working for someone at the new church I was attending at the time in a cement related field, but they basically only specialised on doing footers, and weren't really interested in training anyone outside of their family how to learn to do more beyond unskilled labour. So I spent a few years not learning much other than how to become proficient in carrying 2x6s around or pushing wheelbarrows. On the bright side, after many years of praying and hoping, my nephew joined an Anabaptist church when he was 20 and ended up working for the same people, but at the age of 17, so he learned more valuable skills and eventually switched to working for a different family and got the opportunity to buy out their business with sell financing, and that guy really helped him get established. So now he is in his early 20s but has a viable cement business.

I took a break and went to Australia and worked on a steel framing crew in similar circumstances and likewise didn't learn much except how to hold a rattlegun all day to screw C channels together.

If I had it to over again, I would have talked to a lot more people and found a field to become proficient in, and ensured I worked for someone who would have wanted to see me succeed as more than an unskilled labourer. At the time, I was trying to learn how to practice humility better and be content with a lowly occupation and lowly pay. Unfortunately, that does not translate well 12 years later in being able to provide for a family effectively - thankfully, I live under a government with a generous welfare state and belong to a church that doesn't object to members accepting assistance from the government. But it is not realistic to try to support a family on $15 an hour without government assistance.

I would have also avoided certain types of family businesses who are very "clannish" and don't really want anyone outside of their own family to succeed. After 12 years in Anabaptist circles, it is easy for me to identify such people, but back then I had no idea what I was doing.

Electrical work is a field that interests me, however, the pathway to being able to be an electrician is simply far too long (9+ years in my state before I can work independently, with a long period of apprenticeship where I wouldn't really earn enough to support a family and would be the first to get laid off if we have a downturn), and by then I'll be too old to have many good years left to earn and save for retirement. Unfortunately you can only reinvent yourself so many times, and by your mid-40s, it's not a good time to move into a new kind of physical occupation, as you just can't keep up with younger people with more energy who can work 2 or 3 hours away from home, plenty of overtime, and don't need to worry about having kids at home who should see their dad at supper more than once or twice per week.

Overall, whilst this may sound cynical, I have warned seekers to Anabaptist circles to be very, very wary of joining an Anabaptist church if they are middle aged and they will be expected to change professions, and to perhaps focus on a church where they don't have to do that. I have nothing but regret about the direction my own career has taken. I thought it was important to be humble and to work for a much lower salary than I was used to, but it turns out those are not things that are particularly valued in Anabaptist circles - and perhaps they shouldn't be.

[Anthony]

Electrician, i got a job through someone in my church. What wasnt smooth about yours?

Couple of things. One factor is probably being too old (I attempted to transition at 32). Other factor was simply picking the wrong thing to go into - I started working for someone at the new church I was attending at the time in a cement related field, but they basically only specialised on doing footers, and weren't really interested in training anyone outside of their family how to learn to do more beyond unskilled labour. So I spent a few years not learning much other than how to become proficient in carrying 2x6s around or pushing wheelbarrows. On the bright side, after many years of praying and hoping, my nephew joined an Anabaptist church when he was 20 and ended up working for the same people, but at the age of 17, so he learned more valuable skills and eventually switched to working for a different family and got the opportunity to buy out their business with sell financing, and that guy really helped him get established. So now he is in his early 20s but has a viable cement business.

I took a break and went to Australia and worked on a steel framing crew in similar circumstances and likewise didn't learn much except how to hold a rattlegun all day to screw C channels together.

If I had it to over again, I would have talked to a lot more people and found a field to become proficient in, and ensured I worked for someone who would have wanted to see me succeed as more than an unskilled labourer. At the time, I was trying to learn how to practice humility better and be content with a lowly occupation and lowly pay. Unfortunately, that does not translate well 12 years later in being able to provide for a family effectively - thankfully, I live under a government with a generous welfare state and belong to a church that doesn't object to members accepting assistance from the government. But it is not realistic to try to support a family on $15 an hour without government assistance.

I would have also avoided certain types of family businesses who are very "clannish" and don't really want anyone outside of their own family to succeed. After 12 years in Anabaptist circles, it is easy for me to identify such people, but back then I had no idea what I was doing.

Electrical work is a field that interests me, however, the pathway to being able to be an electrician is simply far too long (9+ years in my state before I can work independently, with a long period of apprenticeship where I wouldn't really earn enough to support a family and would be the first to get laid off if we have a downturn), and by then I'll be too old to have many good years left to earn and save for retirement. Unfortunately you can only reinvent yourself so many times, and by your mid-40s, it's not a good time to move into a new kind of physical occupation, as you just can't keep up with younger people with more energy who can work 2 or 3 hours away from home, plenty of overtime, and don't need to worry about having kids at home who should see their dad at supper more than once or twice per week.

Overall, whilst this may sound cynical, I have warned seekers to Anabaptist circles to be very, very wary of joining an Anabaptist church if they are middle aged and they will be expected to change professions, and to perhaps focus on a church where they don't have to do that. I have nothing but regret about the direction my own career has taken. I thought it was important to be humble and to work for a much lower salary than I was used to, but it turns out those are not things that are particularly valued in Anabaptist circles - and perhaps they shouldn't be.

That is very interesting, i thought alot about this when I first joined my church, I joined my church about 3 years ago in my early 20s, i have put alot of effort into my career path within the mennonites, maybe the most “stressful” part of my entire transition. I jumped from software developer -> Mennonite owned retail store employee -> Electrician. Ive been very aggressive in asking my boss for more high level work and ive been successful in getting it, though the pay is low. I am single and have plenty of savings with potential parental support as backup, but my biggest stressor is still the career shift I had to take.

In order to become an electrician I had to practically hound two of my church members to give me a chance, i was met with “you are a computer wizard, just stay at the retail store!” Or excuses that im not used to physical labor so I shouldnt do it. I ignored all of it and eventually got into a crew where im well respected and the atmosphere is very enjoyable to work in. The career is also in high demand and opportunities for growth are obvious and ample.

Your story is almost my worst nightmare, which I am trying very hard to avoid. A very important and underrated part of being a seeker, especially as a man.

[JohnH]

That is very interesting, i thought alot about this when I first joined my church, I joined my church about 3 years ago in my early 20s, i have put alot of effort into my career path within the mennonites, maybe the most “stressful” part of my entire transition. I jumped from software developer -> Mennonite owned retail store employee -> Electrician. Ive been very aggressive in asking my boss for more high level work and ive been successful in getting it, though the pay is low. I am single and have plenty of savings with potential parental support as backup, but my biggest stressor is still the career shift I had to take.

Those were very good decisions to make, particularly pushing hard to actually develop a skill as opposed to generic store / office work (these kind of jobs tend to be very nepotistically assigned and to not provide any real career path).

I am at the point where I need to worry about how to care for my aging parents as they are nearly 80, meanwhile my children are age range 1 - 5.

In order to become an electrician I had to practically hound two of my church members to give me a chance, i was met with “you are a computer wizard, just stay at the retail store!”

Yes. There is a misperception that "computer wizards" somehow can make a lot of money or can easily find a job or just "work remotely", which is not actually the case. (If I wanted to get a good software engineering job, I would need to move to the Bay Area, and I guess see my family on weekends since the nearest plain Anabaptist community of any type is 2 hours away, without traffic.)

Or excuses that im not used to physical labor so I shouldnt do it.

Yes, I heard some of the same feedback when I was 32. I pushed back on it and just went and did it anyway. However, if you are not from a plain background, it will be difficult if not impossible to overcome the general assumption that you just won't be as strong / physical / able to work as hard as a person who grew up in a plain family.

This is less of a problem for the really, really plain groups like Delano, TN, New Order Amish, etc. and is probably the worst in the least-conservative groups like Mid-West or Beachy.

I ignored all of it and eventually got into a crew where im well respected and the atmosphere is very enjoyable to work in. The career is also in high demand and opportunities for growth are obvious and ample.

Yes, it's a field I've often wished I would have explored sooner. I can do 'unlicenced' electrical work, but that's not really something that is wise to build a career out of. Nonetheless I have a few family members and friends who are always asking me why I don't just go become an electrician and make a lot of money or something.

Your story is almost my worst nightmare, which I am trying very hard to avoid. A very important and underrated part of being a seeker, especially as a man.

All I can say is how grateful I am when the government makes our SNAP deposit each month...

[Anthony]

There is also the aspect of working in tech around 2022 where AI started to really affect the character of working tech, using chatgpt or agentic AI made the job extremely unfun and clearly would crater that entire field. Manual labor on the other hand was being touted as harder to replace, this made my willingness to drop my career substantially easier. I was also fresh out of college with about a year put into software developing.


I dont envy your position, but i can respect the struggle it must of been.

[JohnH]

There is also the aspect of working in tech around 2022 where AI started to really affect the character of working those fields, using chatgpt or agentic AI made the job extremely unfun and clearly would crater that entire field. Manual labor on the other hand was being touted as harder to replace, this made my willingness to drop my career substantially easier.

Well, I pivoted in 2014, before the AI stuff.

In 2017 after quite a bit of pressure from my family (who were not plain, yet) I joined a cybersecurity startup, did quite well there, it wasn't too bad going back into the field. Did a great deal of travel and the home office was only 30 minutes from a large plain community (it was an Israeli firm and their first U.S. office was based in Wayne County, Ohio for various reasons).

In 2022 I was at another cybersecurity firm and decided to strike it on my own, and am still doing that, with a team of 2 software developers plus myself and a salesperson/account manager type of person, basically my "cofounder".

The AI shift has been big, particularly the mass layoffs which mean there are a lot more people out there looking for work and competing with us. (This was already a problem circa 2023 when I had to start competing on a global market, so the prices I can charge are basically levelling out with the prices someone from Ukraine/Russia or Argentina can charge.) We do use AI tools although I have not seen some massive productivity bump from them, and for the last month or so, the cost of some of these tools has gotten really, really high compared to the benefits of using them.

One persistent problem is that it is difficult to run a plain business if your background isn't plain, because you simply don't have the extensive family connections other people do. If someone is looking at services from our firm vs. a place that has people with last names they recognise on staff, they're going to go with the latter firm every single time, so the only way we can compete at all is entirely on merits. My current client roster consists solely of people who have been burned badly from other firms who failed to deliver a working product and basically were desperate to find someone to work with them but didn't have the resources to hire their own full-time team of developers. With that said, we are extremely vulnerable to another competent firm showing up that has plain-background people on staff. (My cofounder was technically raised plain, but her dad was a seeker, so she does not have a "plain" last name; if she did, it would be much easier for her to sell.)

I dont envy your position, but i can 100% respect the struggle it must of been.

Thanks! I'm glad you were able to find a good career path out of things when you did.