Opinions about the chickenpox, measles, and rubella vaccines

[Judas Maccabeus]

The level of dedication to vaccines often reaches that of a religion. It would be good if people believes in Jesus as their healer as much as they do vaccines as their healer.

If you believe that, why not other medicine as well? There are groups that have that as a point of doctrine. The Church of God, Restoration is an example.

It does not take much of an internet search to find the tragic end to that theology.

[JohnH]

The level of dedication to vaccines often reaches that of a religion. It would be good if people believes in Jesus as their healer as much as they do vaccines as their healer.

If you believe that, why not other medicine as well? There are groups that have that as a point of doctrine. The Church of God, Restoration is an example.

It does not take much of an internet search to find the tragic end to that theology.

What do you think I believe?

I simply said one should not believe in vaccines to the level of some sort of religion.

Considering the absolute debacle for the COVID vaccines, being sceptical of new types of vaccines is something that I think has worked well for me and my family.

The ad bacuulum approach like "tragic end" is a bit silly too. People in America are not getting healthier. Life expectancy is getting shorter. We need to trust in God to take care of us, not a medical system that, frankly, is falling apart and seems to rely on giving people six figure hospital bills.

[Southerner]

Life expectancy is getting shorter.

The stats aren't showing this.

[Soloist]

We could have been positive about a vaccine ethically produced, or we can complain about trust in vaccines.

You might as well say we trust too much that motrin will get rid of headaches... or that the level of dedication against vaccines often reaches that of a religion...

[JohnH]

Life expectancy is getting shorter.

The stats aren't showing this.

Life expectancy is not getting better.

In particular, mortality amongst children and young people is getting worse.

"More vaccines" is not going to help, particularly when trust in vaccines is at an all-time low. The trust was permanently destroyed during the COVID era. There is no reason to go back now.

We could have been positive about a vaccine ethically produced, or we can complain about trust in vaccines.

There was no critical mass behind this. I used to have a position similar to JM's position. Essentially, "Well, it's OK to use aborted baby parts sometimes if it's for the greater good" (JM, please correct me if it's not your position that using fetal stem cells for vaccines is OK because of purported benefits of such vaccines). Eventually I became convicted such a position is wrong and that I needed to repent of excuses for participating in and benefiting from abortion.

Then the COVID debacle happened, and theoretical convictions became real life. (I was up to date on all my vaccines and didn't have children back then.) Nowadays, I believe in the Bible and believe I can't allow murder to rest on my conscience. There is no point in being a nonresistant Christian not willing to go to war if I'm also willing to kill the most vulnerable - unborn babies - and to think it's OK to do so to benefit my own health.

I would gladly die of a disease, or watch my children die of a disease, that could be prevented by harvesting live tissue from an otherwise aborted baby. I am not willing to kill a baby in order to prolong my own life or my children's life. I hope many other believers will likewise be convicted that we should trust in Jesus for eternal life, instead of seeking to prolong our earthly lives. Many will show up at the judgment seat saying "Lord, Lord, did we not do all these things in your name?" and will instead hear "Depart from me - I never knew you."

[Soloist]

We could have been positive about a vaccine ethically produced, or we can complain about trust in vaccines.

There was no critical mass behind this. I used to have a position similar to JM's position. Essentially, "Well, it's OK to use aborted baby parts sometimes if it's for the greater good" (JM, please correct me if it's not your position that using fetal stem cells for vaccines is OK because of purported benefits of such vaccines).

So you can’t positively support ethical vaccines because bad vaccines exist?

I would gladly die of a disease, or watch my children die of a disease, that could be prevented by harvesting live tissue from an otherwise aborted baby. I am not willing to kill a baby in order to prolong my own life or my children's life.

Gladly… no
Willing and convicted yes.
I don’t gladly let my children suffer from a curable disease or gladly die from it but I am convicted to do what is true.
If tomorrow they made an ethical option I could afford (I can’t afford Japan) my children would get vaccinated.
At some point my children will make their own choice if they want to stand with my position or get the vaccines.

[ohio jones]

Life expectancy is getting shorter.

The stats aren't showing this.

Life expectancy is not getting better.

Nice goalpost adjustment there, but not quite far enough.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... time-high/

The latest death data for the U.S. are in, and they paint an optimistic picture: The average American born in 2024 is now expected to live to age 79. That life expectancy is more than a half-year longer than it was in 2023 and great[er] than in any prior year going back to 1900.

[JohnH]

The stats aren't showing this.

Life expectancy is not getting better.

Nice goalpost adjustment there, but not quite far enough.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... time-high/

The latest death data for the U.S. are in, and they paint an optimistic picture: The average American born in 2024 is now expected to live to age 79. That life expectancy is more than a half-year longer than it was in 2023 and great[er] than in any prior year going back to 1900.

That’s not long enough to draw a trend; the 10 year trend is downward (particularly for younger people).

I realise a global pandemic is in that 10 years, but pandemics do happen and affect overall life expectancy.

[ohio jones]

Life expectancy is not getting better.

Nice goalpost adjustment there, but not quite far enough.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... time-high/

The latest death data for the U.S. are in, and they paint an optimistic picture: The average American born in 2024 is now expected to live to age 79. That life expectancy is more than a half-year longer than it was in 2023 and great[er] than in any prior year going back to 1900.

That’s not long enough to draw a trend; the 10 year trend is downward (particularly for younger people).

I realise a global pandemic is in that 10 years, but pandemics do happen and affect overall life expectancy.

Interesting that a 10 year downward trend can result in the longest life expectancy in over 125 years.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Nice goalpost adjustment there, but not quite far enough.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... time-high/

That’s not long enough to draw a trend; the 10 year trend is downward (particularly for younger people).

I realise a global pandemic is in that 10 years, but pandemics do happen and affect overall life expectancy.

Interesting that a 10 year downward trend can result in the longest life expectancy in over 125 years.

Gains in life expectancy will be smaller and more incremental at this point, since we have picked the low hanging fruit. Infectious disease and cardiac disease is way down, even from when I trained. Vaccine refusal and antibiotic resistance could reverse that, however.