Epstein Files: "I can do whatever I want to"

[Soloist]

I would observe that most of us can break a great deal of traffic laws and seemingly get away with it.

Snort… speeding snort

[Jazman]

One of the fascinating things we learn from the Epstein files is just how much some of the rich and powerful believe “I can do whatever I want to” and “I am better than those other people.” And how much other people are willing to let them live on their chosen pedestals, no matter how much it victimizes others.

They consider themselves exempt from law, morality, and taxes. They think they can do whatever they want to, and it turns out they actually can. To an astonishing degree. While most of us are held accountable in so many ways.

These elites include tech bros, liberals, and MAGA hardliners. They span both political parties. They include talk show hosts and influencers whose programs are wildly hypocritical, claiming to stand for values completely at odds with the way they actually live. And they have a remarkable level of influence on our country as a whole.

In the meantime, so many of us feud over which elites are our idols, and why someone else’s idols are the enemy. All of this feels like idolatry to me. Christians should not elevate people to this position. Neither should democracies.

“Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me. They possess and enjoy early, and it does something to them, makes them soft where we are hard, and cynical where we are trustful, in a way that, unless you were born rich, it is very difficult to understand. They think, deep in their hearts, that they are better than we are because we had to discover the compensations and refuges of life for ourselves. Even when they enter deep into our world or sink below us, they still think that they are better than we
are. They are different. ”
― F. Scott Fitzgerald

The quote implies that one is born with this malady and in some cases, in a way that's true... but in reality the problem begins as the person acquires great sums; that could be when they're young, middle age or later... it can occur instantly, as in the lottery winner (and most of those turn out badly as the great sum works its corrupting magic...)
Some say racism is america's original sin; that may be true. I would add a second one that has beset us from the beginning. Revering wealth AND believing that it is a sign of God's favor from which we derive a measure of immunity or sanction for what WE think is right...(This one may actually have paved the way for the other one)
But even secular science seems to agree; "Epstein Isn't an Aberration... (And echoes the Fitzgerald quote)

[JohnH]

Some say racism is america's original sin; that may be true. I would add a second one that has beset us from the beginning. Revering wealth AND believing that it is a sign of God's favor from which we derive a measure of immunity or sanction for what WE think is right...

Since this is an Anabaptist forum, do you think anyone here (including the "Anabaptist nation", in so far as it exists as an ethno-religious group) has racism as an "original sin", or that we revere wealth as a sign of God's favour?

I'm simply asking, because as far as I can tell Anabaptism is the faith tradition that is probably the furthest from these points compared to any other, except perhaps Quakerism.

[R7ehr]

Some say racism is america's original sin; that may be true. I would add a second one that has beset us from the beginning. Revering wealth AND believing that it is a sign of God's favor from which we derive a measure of immunity or sanction for what WE think is right...(This one may actually have paved the way for the other one)
But even secular science seems to agree; "Epstein Isn't an Aberration... (And echoes the Fitzgerald quote)

Looking back through the last few hundred years, (I’m no scholar) it looks like chattel slavery and racism arose out of greed, and then justified by evolution.
I think that slavery was kept and defended out of financial reasons. Where slavery was not financially beneficial, slavery fell out of acceptance.
So I would say that without greed, slavery doesn’t exist.
Thus, the original, or root, sin, is actually the love of money.

[Robert]

Most hardened criminals think they can "get away with it." Many do.

[temporal1]

Looking back through the last few hundred years, (I’m no scholar) it looks like chattel slavery and racism arose out of greed, and then justified by evolution.
I think that slavery was kept and defended out of financial reasons. Where slavery was not financially beneficial, slavery fell out of acceptance.
So I would say that without greed, slavery doesn’t exist.
Thus, the original, or root, sin, is actually the love of money.

After his own study, Thomas Sowell concluded slavery was a very early human phenom on every continent, neighbors enslaved neighbors, i’ll say, like you, for greed, power, advantage, money or its equivalent. He noted that slaves usually looked like the enslavers, and, of course, at times, “whites” were enslaved by “non whites” - his view is/was the big racial experience followed the advent of large sea going vessels that made transport of black slaves purchased from black slave owners viable+profitable.

When i was young, at the height of the 1960’s political free for all, i begged God to help me understand, WHY?-all the doggone skin colors?! Life would be so much easier .. my childish reasoning. i lived in a mixed area, i couldn’t understand.

As i aged, it didn’t take long, i realized, no. If everyone had 1 skin color, 1 look, it wouldn’t matter a whit.
People would immediately find something else to squabble over.

Decades later, a decade+ on this forum, i’m pretty sure that’s correct.

Anyway.
Everyone says they don’t believe there are inherent differences in people due to race or appearance or culture.
Jesus knew it. Jesus lived it. All lives matter.

“Everyone” else betrays their words with their “big ideas.”

“i can do whatever i want to”
is an inborn trait of humanity, it’s the process of a lifetime, beginning with toddlers, to overcome it. me me me
so cute. so precious. so much to learn.

God breathes the will to live. the newborn are completely vulnerable, they HAVE to be self-centered to survive.

pharaohs, kings, potentates? - the historic human norm, every continent.
from the most remote tribes in jungles everywhere, to Wall Street. it’s all the same impulse.

then Jesus said, “follow Me.” to everyone equally. He didn’t have to do that, that way. He did. His way.

it’s normal and expected humans are going to do all possible to out-do God. my way! my way!
it just doesn’t work.

[Jazman]

Some say racism is america's original sin; that may be true. I would add a second one that has beset us from the beginning. Revering wealth AND believing that it is a sign of God's favor from which we derive a measure of immunity or sanction for what WE think is right...(This one may actually have paved the way for the other one)
But even secular science seems to agree; "Epstein Isn't an Aberration... (And echoes the Fitzgerald quote)

Looking back through the last few hundred years, (I’m no scholar) it looks like chattel slavery and racism arose out of greed, and then justified by evolution.
I think that slavery was kept and defended out of financial reasons. Where slavery was not financially beneficial, slavery fell out of acceptance.
So I would say that without greed, slavery doesn’t exist.
Thus, the original, or root, sin, is actually the love of money.

I think you're right. I could amend what I first wrote, "I would add a second one that has beset us from the beginning. Revering wealth AND believing that it is a sign of God's favor from which we derive a measure of impunity or sanction for what WE think is right...(This one (love of money) paved the way for the other one) And to Barry's Economics point, the people making bank off of chattel slavery became more callous towards other humans and acted with ever greater degrees of impunity, the more they accumulated...

[Judas Maccabeus]

One of the fascinating things we learn from the Epstein files is just how much some of the rich and powerful believe “I can do whatever I want to” and “I am better than those other people.” And how much other people are willing to let them live on their chosen pedestals, no matter how much it victimizes others.

They consider themselves exempt from law, morality, and taxes. They think they can do whatever they want to, and it turns out they actually can. To an astonishing degree. While most of us are held accountable in so many ways.

These elites include tech bros, liberals, and MAGA hardliners. They span both political parties. They include talk show hosts and influencers whose programs are wildly hypocritical, claiming to stand for values completely at odds with the way they actually live. And they have a remarkable level of influence on our country as a whole.

In the meantime, so many of us feud over which elites are our idols, and why someone else’s idols are the enemy. All of this feels like idolatry to me. Christians should not elevate people to this position. Neither should democracies.

“Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me. They possess and enjoy early, and it does something to them, makes them soft where we are hard, and cynical where we are trustful, in a way that, unless you were born rich, it is very difficult to understand. They think, deep in their hearts, that they are better than we are because we had to discover the compensations and refuges of life for ourselves. Even when they enter deep into our world or sink below us, they still think that they are better than we
are. They are different. ”
― F. Scott Fitzgerald

The quote implies that one is born with this malady and in some cases, in a way that's true... but in reality the problem begins as the person acquires great sums; that could be when they're young, middle age or later... it can occur instantly, as in the lottery winner (and most of those turn out badly as the great sum works its corrupting magic...)
Some say racism is america's original sin; that may be true. I would add a second one that has beset us from the beginning. Revering wealth AND believing that it is a sign of God's favor from which we derive a measure of immunity or sanction for what WE think is right...(This one may actually have paved the way for the other one)
But even secular science seems to agree; "Epstein Isn't an Aberration... (And echoes the Fitzgerald quote)

That is the “nature versus nurture” debate, and I suspect it will never be solved. Parents “fixing “ all of the misdeeds of their children teaches lessons that are hard to undo.

[temporal1]

That is the “nature versus nurture” debate, and I suspect it will never be solved. Parents “fixing “ all of the misdeeds of their children teaches lessons that are hard to undo.

i’m pretty sure we’re nature AND nurture, with endless combinations.

i’m convinced we all are born with our own indvidual software packages, probably from conception, if not before, AND we all have earthly experiences+input, likely starting in the womb, affected by whatever our mothers ingest, food, drugs, air - to psychological tensions and noises coming from outside .. we’re complex beings. Not of human or AI design.

Our daughter was 6 when our son was born. i believe he listened to her for 9 months before he was born. He seemed so used to her voice. He could sleep through anything.

All of it is God’s doing. He’s not surprised by any of it. Not in the least.

[barnhart]

It's tempting to think of having entered an era of increased lawlessness and corruption with the administration issuing blanket pardons for criminals, publishing enemy lists of political opponents to prosecute, promising "retribution", quashing regulation on the crypto industry to making 100's of millions in failed crypto schemes, outlandishly large gifts from foreign leaders, refusing to carryout congressional demands to regulate social media platforms, etc... But, I suppose every era seems dramatic and headed in the wrong direction.