A New American Dream

[JayP]

Well, I enjoyed the references how CA and LMC access music, etc. which confirms the attitude I saw expressed in many conservative Mennonite settings.

That is, and I agree, one man’s Mennonite is another man’s Protestant.

I am sure many will disagree, but I do sincerely consider the vast majority of self described Mennonites as simply “peace oriented”, historically Anabaptist rooted liberal mainline Protestants. It’s no difference than I smile at some friends that proclaim their “Irish ness” but eating corned beef and drinking beer on St Paddy’s Day but couldn’t find Dublin on a map if you spotted them the Dub.

I am not saying anyone here is or is not a real Mennonite. Just observing.

[Valerie]

Well, I enjoyed the references how CA and LMC access music, etc. which confirms the attitude I saw expressed in many conservative Mennonite settings.

That is, and I agree, one man’s Mennonite is another man’s Protestant.

I am sure many will disagree, but I do sincerely consider the vast majority of self described Mennonites as simply “peace oriented”, historically Anabaptist rooted liberal mainline Protestants. It’s no difference than I smile at some friends that proclaim their “Irish ness” but eating corned beef and drinking beer on St Paddy’s Day but couldn’t find Dublin on a map if you spotted them the Dub.

I am not saying anyone here is or is not a real Mennonite. Just observing.

You remind me of a former Mennonite I met in a Baptist church- he had been a seeker outsider. He became divisions with similar observations giving us some examples so they finally left.

I think that seekers to other religions can have rose colored glasses and then start questioning things based on some observations that are perplexing.

We were seeking Orthodox after having sought Anabaptists yet we observed similar disappointments in orthopraxy while admiring orthodoxy.

I conclude people are people & rules are rules- the Holy Spirit should be our guide as opposed to hard fast rules it seems to me, then we will not be as judgmental as each persons journey in sanctification may look different.

[JohnH]

Well, I enjoyed the references how CA and LMC access music, etc. which confirms the attitude I saw expressed in many conservative Mennonite settings.

That is, and I agree, one man’s Mennonite is another man’s Protestant.

I am sure many will disagree, but I do sincerely consider the vast majority of self described Mennonites as simply “peace oriented”, historically Anabaptist rooted liberal mainline Protestants. It’s no difference than I smile at some friends that proclaim their “Irish ness” but eating corned beef and drinking beer on St Paddy’s Day but couldn’t find Dublin on a map if you spotted them the Dub.

I am not saying anyone here is or is not a real Mennonite. Just observing.

By numbers, most Mennonites are either horse and buggy groups, conservative groups like Holdemans, or else African based groups started by missionaries. None of those resemble liberal mainline Protestants.

A few small groups like BMA are not very conservative.

Most academics place Anabaptists in a third box called the “radical reformers” which is different than the magisterial reformers and different from the various apostolic groups.

[Bootstrap]

I guess Ernie's article really bothered people. Or else they didn't read it. It continues to be the one thing people want to avoid discussing in this thread. Suppose some people want to discuss the topic - do we need to spawn a new thread that is about the actual topic?

Do people feel the need to believe that America is now the hottest country, and people would not be leaving for the reasons that they are leaving? Is that something people want to ignore? Or are people just venting their pet peeves here without reading the OP or the article?

The article is very clear that these people represent broad swaths of American society. The motivation is not primarily political or gender.

[temporal1]

WSJ has a paywall and lib bias.

“Americans Are Leaving the U.S. in Record Numbers”
More citizens are replanting overseas, drawn by a quality of life made easily affordable by the U.S.’s enviable salaries.
“I wasn’t expecting to be surrounded by this many Americans.”

From the headline+byline, it appears, unsurprisingly, Americans are looking for more bang for their U.S. bucks, which isn’t particularly interesting or concerning.

After my husband died in 2007, i looked at several countries that interested me, for various reasons, budget was one.

As an aside, the many that noisily threatened to move to Canada “if T was elected” didn’t.
i suspect due to Canada’s insane taxes and cost of living, not great healthcare, etc. $$$$

Money is important.
It’s not a widely honored motivation for life choices. It’s common, often unspoken or denied.
Esp by the wealthy.

The word money appears approximately 140 times in the Bible, while related terms like gold and wealth are mentioned more frequently. In total, there are over 2,300 verses discussing money and its implications, reflecting its significance in biblical teachings.
Christian Faith Guide

[barnhart]

People move around for many different reasons, at least those with the support of powerful empires do. A few years ago I read an article about homeschool Americans with big beards and big families moving Russia trading US citizenship for Russian. For them, it represented the final bulwark of christian civilization, Minaz Tirith where all the good people retreat when the Orc armies invade.

Around 100 years ago there was another movement of Americans to Russia, by this time the Soviet Union. They went against the flow of refugees escaping out on conviction the new, modern socialist way of governing the world would prove better than the old capitalist societies corrupted with greed, expansionism and violence.

These movements can be motivated by ideologies that could be labeled right and left. The same conditions that pull some in are at the same time pushing others out.

[JohnL]

People move around for many different reasons, at least those with the support of powerful empires do. A few years ago I read an article about homeschool Americans with big beards and big families moving Russia trading US citizenship for Russian. For them, it represented the final bulwark of christian civilization, Minaz Tirith where all the good people retreat when the Orc armies invade.

Around 100 years ago there was another movement of Americans to Russia, by this time the Soviet Union. They went against the flow of refugees escaping out on conviction the new, modern socialist way of governing the world would prove better than the old capitalist societies corrupted with greed, expansionism and violence.

These movements can be motivated by ideologies that could be labeled right and left. The same conditions that pull some in are at the same time pushing others out.

Yep and yep. I wonder how many of them returned to America after the nightmare of Lenin then Stalin? Would they ever admit to their mistake or just quietly resettle somewhere in the US?

[barnhart]

People move around for many different reasons, at least those with the support of powerful empires do. A few years ago I read an article about homeschool Americans with big beards and big families moving Russia trading US citizenship for Russian. For them, it represented the final bulwark of christian civilization, Minaz Tirith where all the good people retreat when the Orc armies invade.

Around 100 years ago there was another movement of Americans to Russia, by this time the Soviet Union. They went against the flow of refugees escaping out on conviction the new, modern socialist way of governing the world would prove better than the old capitalist societies corrupted with greed, expansionism and violence.

These movements can be motivated by ideologies that could be labeled right and left. The same conditions that pull some in are at the same time pushing others out.

Yep and yep. I wonder how many of them returned to America after the nightmare of Lenin then Stalin? Would they ever admit to their mistake or just quietly resettle somewhere in the US?

I don't know for sure but I imagine they were never allowed back after surrendering US citizenship and swearing allegiance to the Soviet Union.

[JohnL]

People move around for many different reasons, at least those with the support of powerful empires do. A few years ago I read an article about homeschool Americans with big beards and big families moving Russia trading US citizenship for Russian. For them, it represented the final bulwark of christian civilization, Minaz Tirith where all the good people retreat when the Orc armies invade.

Around 100 years ago there was another movement of Americans to Russia, by this time the Soviet Union. They went against the flow of refugees escaping out on conviction the new, modern socialist way of governing the world would prove better than the old capitalist societies corrupted with greed, expansionism and violence.

These movements can be motivated by ideologies that could be labeled right and left. The same conditions that pull some in are at the same time pushing others out.

Yep and yep. I wonder how many of them returned to America after the nightmare of Lenin then Stalin? Would they ever admit to their mistake or just quietly resettle somewhere in the US?

I don't know for sure but I imagine they were never allowed back after surrendering US citizenship and swearing allegiance to the Soviet Union.

I hear tell that some of them returned by the back door. Immigrating into a Western ally nation like Canada and then back to the US.

[Bootstrap]

People move around for many different reasons, at least those with the support of powerful empires do. A few years ago I read an article about homeschool Americans with big beards and big families moving Russia trading US citizenship for Russian. For them, it represented the final bulwark of christian civilization, Minaz Tirith where all the good people retreat when the Orc armies invade.

Around 100 years ago there was another movement of Americans to Russia, by this time the Soviet Union. They went against the flow of refugees escaping out on conviction the new, modern socialist way of governing the world would prove better than the old capitalist societies corrupted with greed, expansionism and violence.

These movements can be motivated by ideologies that could be labeled right and left. The same conditions that pull some in are at the same time pushing others out.

The movie "Reds" is about a couple, married journalists, who move to Russia during this time. Over time, they see that Russia is not the utopia they thought they were moving to. It's quite gripping.

No human nation is the final bulwark of Christian civilization. I think there are some Americans who think ours is. And perhaps some who see the current time as a golden era in Christianity, where political power is talking about promoting Christianity. I do not see it that way.

The people in this article seem to be moving mostly to Europe. And in some ways, Europe continues to represent some traditional Western values better than the United States, which represents others. For instance, safe walkable neighborhoods, a sense of neighborhood, and public schools were all very good where I lived in Berlin. Medical care was cheap and good.