Refugees and Immigration: What does good look like?

[JohnH]

I particularly don't agree with this:

Immigration courts are fully funded so people get timely, fair hearings

Many other government services are not timely (regardless of funding). There are things I am waiting on (or gave up waiting on) due to government bureaucracy. I do not see why immigration should somehow be more special than other things. Dealing with government is often aggravating, slow, and expensive. Immigration is no different.

[ohio jones]

I particularly don't agree with this:

Immigration courts are fully funded so people get timely, fair hearings

Many other government services are not timely (regardless of funding). There are things I am waiting on (or gave up waiting on) due to government bureaucracy. I do not see why immigration should somehow be more special than other things. Dealing with government is often aggravating, slow, and expensive. Immigration is no different.

What good looks like is a government that is efficient, accountable, and reasonable to deal with. Just because some parts of government seem to be the opposite doesn't mean that everything should be.

[Bootstrap]

I particularly don't agree with this:

Immigration courts are fully funded so people get timely, fair hearings

Many other government services are not timely (regardless of funding). There are things I am waiting on (or gave up waiting on) due to government bureaucracy. I do not see why immigration should somehow be more special than other things. Dealing with government is often aggravating, slow, and expensive. Immigration is no different.

If you want to deport someone, you need a deportation order. That's what immigration courts are for. Overall, the average time to reach a decision is 18 months - 2 years. Until then, they are here in the United States, in limbo.

Asylum cases take longer, on the order of 4-4.5 years before even getting a hearing.

So if you don't want people without valid claims here, there are really only two choices:

1. Fund the courts, or
2. Ignore due process and deport people without first establishing that they are here unlawfully

If the government is allowed to ignore due process, it won’t stop with immigrants. Those shortcuts affect people who are here legally as well. Due process protects all of us.

[Bootstrap]

What looks good? Your list looks good, but politics clouds it from both sides. Much of that is being done.

Why is it up to us to figure it out? It is a government action thus is heaped in politics. How can we discuss it without getting into politics? Could you lay out a plan to do that? That would be helpful because I can't see it.

As Christians, I think we are called to concern for the vulnerable and resisting anything that dehumanizes or victimizes people. I think Christians benefit from open discussion as we try to discern what Scripture calls us to.

None of us here run the government, and I’m not trying to argue about who should be elected, who is to blame, or what specific policies should be enacted. But there's a tension here: right now, the dominant public voice on this topic is the government, and it is hard to discuss this topic at all without acknowledging that reality.

I have done significant work with refugee families in a Christian organization, and that was driven by biblical teaching. The program I was involved with was almost entirely shut down by the government. The refugees we worked with are no longer allowed to enter the country. So when I advocate for refugees, I am often speaking against something that the government has done.

I don't think that requires us to discuss ideal government policy in detail. In the OP, I answered John's question, he was having a hard time understanding why I am against some things, and he asked what I would propose instead. I wanted to give him a clear, direct answer.

It's more important to focus on what we should be doing as Christians and what the Bible calls us to. And it's probably better to do that in other threads.

[Robert]

The program I was involved with was almost entirely shut down by the government.

I suspect it was the funding the government shut down. It could still be funded by volunteers and donors, correct?

I have done significant work with refugee families in a Christian organization, and that was driven by biblical teaching.

Sounds like you found a way to do something good. So is your call for more of us to do so, or to opine the loss of government funding to the programs?

I suspect the former. What are ways we could become involved for those who feel called to this?

[Bootstrap]

I have done significant work with refugee families in a Christian organization, and that was driven by biblical teaching.

The program I was involved with was almost entirely shut down by the government.

I suspect it was the funding the government shut down. It could still be funded by volunteers and donors, correct?

The main issue is that the government stopped allowing refugees in. And even started trying to deport people that the government had already screened and welcomed.

Sounds like you found a way to do something good. So is your call for more of us to do so, or to opine the loss of government funding to the programs?

Part of my call, I think, is to stand up for Samaritans the way Jesus did when talking to fine religious people who treated them as subhuman. On MN, I am not talking to the government.

[Robert]

Part of my call, I think, is to stand up for Samaritans the way Jesus did when talking to fine religious people who treated them as subhuman. On MN, I am not talking to the government.

So you are talking to some here that treated them as subhuman?

[Bootstrap]

Part of my call, I think, is to stand up for Samaritans the way Jesus did when talking to fine religious people who treated them as subhuman. On MN, I am not talking to the government.

So you are talking to some here that treated them as subhuman?

I’m not singling out individuals or assigning motives. I’m talking about patterns that show up here over and over again.

When false or sensational claims about immigrants circulate, they usually come from partisan political circles. It's become an identity issue, part of the brand. And these same claims often show up on MN about the same time they show up on the Twitterverse, with no sign that anyone took the time to fact check them.

Even after the claims are clearly shown false, they keep resurfacing. The reality is that very few foreigners in America are murderers, rapists, or violent criminals—but those claims have been repeated so frequently, loudly, and emotionally that many Americans now carry an instinctive suspicion toward foreigners they encounter.

I hear about what this means for some of my foreign-born friends and colleagues who are American citizens, hard workers, honest Christians, some of them in Christian ministry. Or people I have worked with when they arrived as refugees. They are anxious. They do not understand what happened to a country that used to be so welcoming.

So what would Jesus do?

I think Jesus would stand up for vulnerable people who are treated this way. In the New Testament, we see him doing that repeatedly, confronting respectable, religious people who are treating them badly. I think Christians are called to do the same today.

[Robert]

Even after the claims are clearly shown false, they keep resurfacing.

I would like some evidence of this. I have not seen it. Feel free to PM me or post openly. I may be missing some good stuff.

[JohnH]

I think Jesus would stand up for vulnerable people who are treated this way. In the New Testament, we see him doing that repeatedly, confronting respectable, religious people who are treating them badly. I think Christians are called to do the same today.

I would see Jesus standing up for specific people.

I would not see him standing up and saying, “I am standing up for every person who has entered the U.S. without inspection and lodged an asylum claim.”

I wish we could have an honest conversation that most asylum claims are not genuine. That’s very sad for those who do have genuine claims. But just because someone lodges a claim does not mean it is valid.

I would of course want to treat such a person as Jesus would treat them. However, making false applications to the government in order to make personal gain is not something good, and I don’t feel that being a Jesus-follower requires me to somehow give such people special treatment. I view them the same as people who:

- pump off road diesel into their trucks and go on the road
- lie about the purchase price of a vehicle on its title
- get paid cash under the table to dodge taxes
- drive cars/motorbikes/ebikes without required driver licences, registration, and liability insurance or other adequate coverage
- order food on DoorDash, lie and claim it didn’t arrive
- deliver for DoorDash, steal customer’s food
- “rent” someone else’s identity to drive for Uber
- pad out their resume / put outright fiction on it
- work 2 remote work jobs at the same time without telling either employer

And on and on. I don’t think chronic dishonesty, cheating, and so on is ever good and too much of it creates a toxic society. It’s important to take a firm stance against tolerating such things so that we can create space for real refugees who do need asylum.