Refugees and Immigration: What does good look like?

[Southerner]

Refugees that don’t send fraudulently acquired funds to terrorist organizations are welcome, I truly don’t want tax dollars by hard working people to go to anti-American organizations. I think this type of exposure is not going to help the case to enter in freely with no expectations or screening.

Good point. Canada had a major problem with "refugees" from Sri Lanka who were the Tamil minority there who were supposedly fleeing persecution, yet were also funding the LTTE, a notorious terrorist organisation (who are notable in being the group that invented suicide vests, and provided training to Yasser Arafat's PLO in insurgency/terrorist tactics).

Many of the Tamils in Canada didn't really have a choice: the LTTE set up shop in Canada and would shake down "refugees" for payments to fund the LTTE. The LTTE was able to source a global budget of estimated between $200 to $300 million. That's a lot of money to go towards terrorism.

Yet another reason that refugees need to be carefully vetted - the people that refugees are fleeing from need to NOT be admitted.

I will note that the head honchos of that scheme were tried, convicted and imprisoned.

[Southerner]

An interesting article in the newspaper today.


Welcome to Spain

After a military coup in his native Mali in 2022, Sady Traoré said he fled the country for the Canary Islands, a Spanish archipelago off the coast of West Africa. Now 28, he works in the citrus groves of eastern Spain. He hasn’t been able to secure an appointment to apply for Spanish asylum.

Traoré, and hundreds of thousands of other undocumented workers in Spain, got good news yesterday. The Spanish government will give many of them a way to apply for renewable residency permits.It brings me closer to my dream, and the dream of many others like me,” Traoré told our reporter, José Bautista.

The government of Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez, a Socialist, described the measure as critical to Spain’s economic future. Migrant labor plays a large part in the country’s economy. Spain’s minister for migration said it would have an impact “on our social cohesion, well-being, and also on the economy.”

Spain’s opposition leaders largely disagreed. Vox, a far-right party, said it would take the government to court over the decision. Its leader said Sánchez was “accelerating an invasion.”

An outlier Spain’s decision is at odds with the posture toward immigration taken by many Western governments, with widespread public support. Britain recently tightened its rules surrounding refugees. Italy declared that it wanted to detain asylum seekers in Albania while it reviewed their claims. Greece jails those who remain in the country after it rejects their claims.

And in the United States, Trump has vowed to arrest and deport millions of illegal immigrants, ordering a crackdown in order to do so. Illegal crossings at the border have almost stopped, but enforcement elsewhere has led to fatal violence, strife and protests in those places, most notably Minneapolis.

“In the current international context, marked by the rise of anti-migration discourse, Spain’s decision represents a counterweight,” a migration researcher at Pontifical University of Comillas in Madrid told The Times.

How it happened
Spain has legalized waves of undocumented people before, and tried to present itself as a beacon for immigrants. There have been eight campaigns to do so in the country since the mid-1980s, and they’ve rolled out under both progressive and conservative governments. They helped keep Spain’s population from shrinking — the way other European countries have. At least a million migrants benefited, too.

Then came the coronavirus pandemic, when lockdowns in Spain laid bare the importance of migrant labor. A 2021 petition to revive the immigration debate, signed by more than 700,000 Spaniards, went nowhere.

Until Monday, when Sánchez’s government brokered a deal with Unidas Podemos, a smaller left-wing party, in exchange for the support of the Socialists in Parliament.

Traoré, the worker in the citrus grove, told José what that meant for him. The measure provides a chance, he said, “to live in peace and work with dignity to support our families.”

[ohio jones]

Refugees that don’t send fraudulently acquired funds to terrorist organizations are welcome, I truly don’t want tax dollars by hard working people to go to anti-American organizations.

Anyone involved in fraud or funding terrorism should be prosecuted. It doesn't matter if they are citizens, permanent residents, illegal immigrants, refugees, TPS, or whatever.

One of the things that "good" looks like is separating those issues instead of presuming that refugees and immigrants are involved in illegal activities.

[temporal1]

Refugees that don’t send fraudulently acquired funds to terrorist organizations are welcome, I truly don’t want tax dollars by hard working people to go to anti-American organizations.

Anyone involved in fraud or funding terrorism should be prosecuted. It doesn't matter if they are citizens, permanent residents, illegal immigrants, refugees, TPS, or whatever.

One of the things that "good" looks like is separating those issues instead of presuming that refugees and immigrants are involved in illegal activities.

agreed.
i accept consequences will differ (should differ) depending on varying factors, citizenship status is one, repeat offenders, legal versus illegal immigration, etc.

i believe it would be “good” if the U.S. could be rid of profiteers, such as lobbyists, organized political blocs, careers based on expediting fraud, actions created to game the system. Many or most are legal citizens. It’s become big business.

i can’t imagine legal work-arounds were the intent of founders.
however, i believe they were keenly aware of the potential hazards of human reasoning.

[JohnH]

Refugees that don’t send fraudulently acquired funds to terrorist organizations are welcome, I truly don’t want tax dollars by hard working people to go to anti-American organizations.

Anyone involved in fraud or funding terrorism should be prosecuted. It doesn't matter if they are citizens, permanent residents, illegal immigrants, refugees, TPS, or whatever.

One of the things that "good" looks like is separating those issues instead of presuming that refugees and immigrants are involved in illegal activities.

Sometimes, something is so common that it is acceptable to presume a certain intent. For example, anyone who applies for a tourist visa to the U.S. is presumed to have immigrant intent and to be planning to overstay their visa. The applicant has to provide enough evidence to overcome that presumption.

[Valerie]

Refugees that don’t send fraudulently acquired funds to terrorist organizations are welcome, I truly don’t want tax dollars by hard working people to go to anti-American organizations.

Anyone involved in fraud or funding terrorism should be prosecuted. It doesn't matter if they are citizens, permanent residents, illegal immigrants, refugees, TPS, or whatever.

One of the things that "good" looks like is separating those issues instead of presuming that refugees and immigrants are involved in illegal activities.

It was definitely not my intent to imply that at all in a topic that is talking about what we’d like to see happen in refugees and immigration but to explain why vetting is important ad part of the process- again we didn’t “use to” have these great concerns.

I’ve known plenty of Mexicans in my life and I appreciate that they send money home to help their families.

[temporal1]

Refugees that don’t send fraudulently acquired funds to terrorist organizations are welcome, I truly don’t want tax dollars by hard working people to go to anti-American organizations.

Anyone involved in fraud or funding terrorism should be prosecuted. It doesn't matter if they are citizens, permanent residents, illegal immigrants, refugees, TPS, or whatever.

One of the things that "good" looks like is separating those issues instead of presuming that refugees and immigrants are involved in illegal activities.

Sometimes, something is so common that it is acceptable to presume a certain intent. For example, anyone who applies for a tourist visa to the U.S. is presumed to have immigrant intent and to be planning to overstay their visa. The applicant has to provide enough evidence to overcome that presumption.

Unfortunately, violators cause a lot of damage, no matter the circumstances. Sins+crimes come at a broad cost.

[Bootstrap]

Refugees that don’t send fraudulently acquired funds to terrorist organizations are welcome, I truly don’t want tax dollars by hard working people to go to anti-American organizations.

Anyone involved in fraud or funding terrorism should be prosecuted. It doesn't matter if they are citizens, permanent residents, illegal immigrants, refugees, TPS, or whatever.

One of the things that "good" looks like is separating those issues instead of presuming that refugees and immigrants are involved in illegal activities.

I think this is really important. Very few refugees do any of these things. Their crime rates are lower than native-born Americans. But if one refugee does something wrong, the Internet explodes with people who say, "look, that's what they are all like!" Often, the Internet explodes with accusations that never happened in the first place.

That is a way of spreading hate.

[Southerner]

As far as I'm concerned, any crime committed by an immigrant at all should mean they go straight back. There is no reason to tolerate them staying here.

I assume you are referencing illegal immigrants? Or does this apply to a "green card holder"?

[Bootstrap]

As far as I'm concerned, any crime committed by an immigrant at all should mean they go straight back. There is no reason to tolerate them staying here.

I assume you are referencing illegal immigrants? Or does this apply to a "green card holder"?

And I assume they should be convicted of a crime, not merely accused? Viral internet claims should not require deporting people who are not convicted of a crime?

And I assume you don't mean speeding, jaywalking, underage drinking, or fishing without a license?