The Theological Crisis of Zionism: Blasphemy, Supremacism, and the West

[ken_sylvania]

I suspect that it works much better (or, that this goal is much more attainable) when the two people groups are (mere) ethnic groups, perhaps even both minority groups. (But politics appears to me to be a mostly destructive force.)

Well, some group will be the majority. Diversity + proximity tends to equal war. I don’t like war.

Realistically, Christians with similar doctrine and practice are effectively an ethno-religious group.

Like the COGICM people for instance?

[JohnH]

I suspect that it works much better (or, that this goal is much more attainable) when the two people groups are (mere) ethnic groups, perhaps even both minority groups. (But politics appears to me to be a mostly destructive force.)

Well, some group will be the majority. Diversity + proximity tends to equal war. I don’t like war.

Realistically, Christians with similar doctrine and practice are effectively an ethno-religious group.

Like the COGICM people for instance?

Yes, I think ethnographers would agree Holdemans have formed an ethno-religious group, and it will continue to become an even more distinct one as time goes on. You might see people who superifically appear to be of different ethnic backgrounds, races, etc., but eventually it will be clear they talk and think and act the same way. (Like any ethno-religious group, there are sub-groups such as the Canadian vs. American differences.)

[Thomas_muntzer]

My impression is that while Zionism is couched in theological terminology, there is nothing deeply theological about it, at its core. Note that the most religious Jews did not support Zionism, the effort to recreate the state of Israel, or to rebuild the temple. In fact, they actively opposed it, believing that this would all be done by the Messiah, when he comes. (I say 'comes', and not 'returns', because they do not recognize that He's already been here once.)

It is true, however, that some Christians have been and are confused about this question, because they conflate faith and politics. Some of my own people organized into separate Mennonite groups in the colonies in the Russian Empire, often referred to as 'Templers'. Some of them attempted to emigrate to Israel in the 1800's, but my understanding is that few, if any, actually made it that far.

It's quite true that Theodor Herzl, the founder of the Zionist project, was a Jewish atheist.

Theologically, it's a huge debate within Christian denominations, especially evangelicals, and it's closely related to another theological position called dispensationalism, which denies Christ as the path to God

[Heirbyadoption]

Theologically, it's a huge debate within Christian denominations, especially evangelicals, and it's closely related to another theological position called dispensationalism, which denies Christ as the path to God

Could you expand on how Dispensationalism (whichever form you are referring to) denies Jesus as the path to God? Thanks!

[Heirbyadoption]

Theologically, it's a huge debate within Christian denominations, especially evangelicals, and it's closely related to another theological position called dispensationalism, which denies Christ as the path to God

(bumping this up) Could you expand on how Dispensationalism (whichever form you are referring to) denies Jesus as the path to God? Thanks!

[JohnH]

Theologically, it's a huge debate within Christian denominations, especially evangelicals, and it's closely related to another theological position called dispensationalism, which denies Christ as the path to God

(bumping this up) Could you expand on how Dispensationalism (whichever form you are referring to) denies Jesus as the path to God? Thanks!

I am eager to hear as well, as I am a staunch anti-dispensationalist, but was unaware it hit such levels of heresy. Perhaps it is referring to some dispensationalists who view "multiple pathways" to God without having to have faith in Jesus, such as some odd exception for denizens of Israel?

[cmbl]

Theologically, it's a huge debate within Christian denominations, especially evangelicals, and it's closely related to another theological position called dispensationalism, which denies Christ as the path to God

(bumping this up) Could you expand on how Dispensationalism (whichever form you are referring to) denies Jesus as the path to God? Thanks!

I am eager to hear as well, as I am a staunch anti-dispensationalist, but was unaware it hit such levels of heresy. Perhaps it is referring to some dispensationalists who view "multiple pathways" to God without having to have faith in Jesus, such as some odd exception for denizens of Israel?

I suspect that that is what he is referring to. My understanding is that there is a note in the Scofield Reference Bible which could be taken to indicate such, but that it is tenuous to claim that that is actually what it meant. John Hagee may have said similar things.

For whatever it's worth, I would not write what Thomas_muntzer did. I view non-dispensationalists claiming "Dispensationalism denies Christ as the path to God" similarly to how I view Dispensationalists insinuating that if you don't believe in Dispensationalism you must not believe in Creation or believe the Bible, etc. Needlessly over-the-top accusations.

[JohnH]

I’ve found it’s easiest to just ask someone if they believe in Jesus as the only way to God.

[Thomas_muntzer]

Theologically, it's a huge debate within Christian denominations, especially evangelicals, and it's closely related to another theological position called dispensationalism, which denies Christ as the path to God

(bumping this up) Could you expand on how Dispensationalism (whichever form you are referring to) denies Jesus as the path to God? Thanks!

There are pastors who literally claim that Jews will be saved solely because of their ethnicity, which contradicts the entire New Testament. I truly don't understand how there are people who call themselves Christians and can state such blasphemies without any shame.

Just look what pastor John Hagee affirms, Not only does he believe that Jews will be saved without accepting Christ into their hearts, but he also discourages and criticizes those who preach the gospel to Jews. I'm truly speechless at what these dispensationalist pastors are doing.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dOnuOEbtQxA

https://www.monergism.com/john-hagee



Here is a video of a group of Israeli Jews bravely debunking this falsehood.

[Thomas_muntzer]

(bumping this up) Could you expand on how Dispensationalism (whichever form you are referring to) denies Jesus as the path to God? Thanks!

I am eager to hear as well, as I am a staunch anti-dispensationalist, but was unaware it hit such levels of heresy. Perhaps it is referring to some dispensationalists who view "multiple pathways" to God without having to have faith in Jesus, such as some odd exception for denizens of Israel?

I suspect that that is what he is referring to. My understanding is that there is a note in the Scofield Reference Bible which could be taken to indicate such, but that it is tenuous to claim that that is actually what it meant. John Hagee may have said similar things.

For whatever it's worth, I would not write what Thomas_muntzer did. I view non-dispensationalists claiming "Dispensationalism denies Christ as the path to God" similarly to how I view Dispensationalists insinuating that if you don't believe in Dispensationalism you must not believe in Creation or believe the Bible, etc. Needlessly over-the-top accusations.

Dispensationalism is merely the gateway to dual covenant theology, which is already openly a false teaching and one of the worst

And it's not just John Hagee; many dispensationalist pastors hold similar positions, such as Pat Robertson, Reinhold Niebhur, and James Parkes.