Civil War-again?

[ohio jones]

Can we put the moderators out of a job?

I've considered moving several most of the posts out of this thread. But then I realized, Civil War is worse than the Briar Patch. Maybe other posts should be moved here instead.

[JohnL]

Can we put the moderators out of a job?

I've considered moving several most of the posts out of this thread. But then I realized, Civil War is worse than the Briar Patch. Maybe other posts should be moved here instead.

Maybe just close the topic completely. No one’s having a change of heart. All the arguments are the same. All the word twist games are the same. After 30 pages of same ‘ol same ol gotcha talk’ my suggestion is to just give it a rest and close the bar.

[temporal1]

Can we put the moderators out of a job?

o.boy.o.boy.o,boy.

for those of us who allegedly want to be subjugated, no.

[Bootstrap]

Can we put the moderators out of a job?

I've considered moving several most of the posts out of this thread. But then I realized, Civil War is worse than the Briar Patch. Maybe other posts should be moved here instead.

For some reason, Civil Wars never seem to be civil.

[Valerie]

Because that rhetoric is false. The left is using that to “scare the public” . They are not doing ethnic cleansing and putting them in concentration camps and killing them like NAZIs did the Jews.

I agree that “Nazi” isn’t an accurate term, and using it just raises the temperature instead of helping the discussion.

It’s also not accurate to pretend nothing serious is happening. Whether we call them “concentration camps” or “prison camps,” the reality is that very large detention facilities are being built, they are boasting about how bad they are, calling them names like Alligator Alcatraz, promoting videos that show how harsh they can be.

Trump didn’t invent Homeland Security. nor ICE.

But this new paramilitary approach, "shock and awe", openly threatening people, tear gassing bystanders, arresting people for watching or recording them, breaking car windows, refusing to investigate when they shoot someone ... that's new.

ICE used to detain immigrants by knocking on their door at 5 a.m. and arresting them at home. They have the addresses, they can do that quietly. They used to avoid this kind of uproar. Now, they want dramatic videos. They want open conflict with local government and police, and play it up on media and social media. They threaten people who disagree with them.

None of this strikes me as pro-democracy. It looks more like an effort to gain power by heating things up, creating conflict, and then justifying emergency measures because of the chaos. I agree that Nazi is the wrong term, but this doesn't seem like pro-democracy either.

ICE gets treated horribly & threats to them, about them. You want to be safe? Let them do their job like other areas are that aren’t having all this war zone situations.

It’s the government in the blue cities that is inciting the angry mobsters by lying & encouraging protests.
They are protecting Murderers, rapists, drug traffickers, sodomites etc as ICE has caught the worse of the worse there so no, I don’t accept lamestreet media bias nor blue city government lies who try to take the focus on their own corruption that is under investigation.

[Bootstrap]

Trump didn’t invent Homeland Security. nor ICE.

But this new paramilitary approach, "shock and awe", openly threatening people, tear gassing bystanders, arresting people for watching or recording them, breaking car windows, refusing to investigate when they shoot someone ... that's new.

ICE used to detain immigrants by knocking on their door at 5 a.m. and arresting them at home. They have the addresses, they can do that quietly. They used to avoid this kind of uproar. Now, they want dramatic videos. They want open conflict with local government and police, and play it up on media and social media. They threaten people who disagree with them.

None of this strikes me as pro-democracy. It looks more like an effort to gain power by heating things up, creating conflict, and then justifying emergency measures because of the chaos. I agree that Nazi is the wrong term, but this doesn't seem like pro-democracy either.

ICE gets treated horribly & threats to them, about them. You want to be safe? Let them do their job like other areas are that aren’t having all this war zone situations.

It’s the government in the blue cities that is inciting the angry mobsters by lying & encouraging protests.
They are protecting Murderers, rapists, drug traffickers, sodomites etc as ICE has caught the worse of the worse there so no, I don’t accept lamestreet media bias nor blue city government lies who try to take the focus on their own corruption that is under investigation.

I agree that we do need immigration enforcement. Every country does.

But ICE is treating people horribly, and right now ICE appears to be getting full legal cover from the DOJ even when videos look like American citizens are being killed without clear cause. Federal authorities are blocking both federal and state investigations into these shootings—the kind of independent investigation that normally happens any time police shoot someone.

It’s really hard for me to see an armed paramilitary force as the victims here, especially when they are shooting people, refusing to give first aid, preventing others from giving first aid in order to let them bleed out and die, and using pepper spray against observers and journalists. And now there has been yet another shooting today, with the same pattern of secrecy and blocked investigations. That doesn’t look like normal law enforcement. Police aren’t allowed to do some of these things even to violent criminals, and some of them would be considered war crimes if done on a battlefield.

Minnesota has encouraged citizens to record what ICE is doing. That doesn’t stop ICE from doing its job, but it does appear to be documenting serious abuses. Protests are a First Amendment right, even when they’re loud or uncomfortable. So is recording government agents and documenting abuse. That’s basic democracy, not incitement.

And I worry about where this leads. Once you normalize having a paramilitary force at the government’s beck and call, a surveillance state, and detention camps, those tools may be used against the rest of us. We’re already seeing them used against American citizens with no criminal record who were never charged with any crime, and history says that kind of power rarely shrinks on its own.

[Valerie]

But this new paramilitary approach, "shock and awe", openly threatening people, tear gassing bystanders, arresting people for watching or recording them, breaking car windows, refusing to investigate when they shoot someone ... that's new.

ICE used to detain immigrants by knocking on their door at 5 a.m. and arresting them at home. They have the addresses, they can do that quietly. They used to avoid this kind of uproar. Now, they want dramatic videos. They want open conflict with local government and police, and play it up on media and social media. They threaten people who disagree with them.

None of this strikes me as pro-democracy. It looks more like an effort to gain power by heating things up, creating conflict, and then justifying emergency measures because of the chaos. I agree that Nazi is the wrong term, but this doesn't seem like pro-democracy either.

ICE gets treated horribly & threats to them, about them. You want to be safe? Let them do their job like other areas are that aren’t having all this war zone situations.

It’s the government in the blue cities that is inciting the angry mobsters by lying & encouraging protests.
They are protecting Murderers, rapists, drug traffickers, sodomites etc as ICE has caught the worse of the worse there so no, I don’t accept lamestreet media bias nor blue city government lies who try to take the focus on their own corruption that is under investigation.

I agree that we do need immigration enforcement. Every country does.

But ICE is treating people horribly, and right now ICE appears to be getting full legal cover from the DOJ even when videos look like American citizens are being killed without clear cause. Federal authorities are blocking both federal and state investigations into these shootings—the kind of independent investigation that normally happens any time police shoot someone.

It’s really hard for me to see an armed paramilitary force as the victims here, especially when they are shooting people, refusing to give first aid, preventing others from giving first aid in order to let them bleed out and die, and using pepper spray against observers and journalists. And now there has been yet another shooting today, with the same pattern of secrecy and blocked investigations. That doesn’t look like normal law enforcement. Police aren’t allowed to do some of these things even to violent criminals, and some of them would be considered war crimes if done on a battlefield.

Minnesota has encouraged citizens to record what ICE is doing. That doesn’t stop ICE from doing its job, but it does appear to be documenting serious abuses. Protests are a First Amendment right, even when they’re loud or uncomfortable. So is recording government agents and documenting abuse. That’s basic democracy, not incitement.

And I worry about where this leads. Once you normalize having a paramilitary force at the government’s beck and call, a surveillance state, and detention camps, those tools may be used against the rest of us. We’re already seeing them used against American citizens with no criminal record who were never charged with any crime, and history says that kind of power rarely shrinks on its own.

Once you normalize ev protesting and resisting authorities trying to protect the American people, which is what they were voted in to do, that’s when you need to worry about where this will lead. W

[Soloist]

Once you normalize ev protesting and resisting authorities trying to protect the American people, which is what they were voted in to do, that’s when you need to worry about where this will lead. W

The British are coming!

There must not be many history teachers around.

[Valerie]

Once you normalize ev protesting and resisting authorities trying to protect the American people, which is what they were voted in to do, that’s when you need to worry about where this will lead. W

The British are coming!

There must not be many history teachers around.

I forgot about Anabaptist beginning/history.
Resistance is an option so let’s encourage lawlessness.

[ohio jones]

Once you normalize ev protesting and resisting authorities trying to protect the American people, which is what they were voted in to do, that’s when you need to worry about where this will lead. W

I thought the Tesla vandalism, though negative, was just for a short time last year. Good pun though, it makes me feel at ohm.