Civil War-again?

[GaryK]

Because a soldier goes through boot camp and ICE is up against the enemy every single day.
I haven’t heard about a lot of their mistakes but I’ve seen what they are up against and people that join our military get at least 6 weeks solid rigid training.

No it doesn’t take Trump admitting it we just find ourselves defending them because they are called NAZIs which only inflames and scares people to those following lawful orders. As opposed to the criminals that they are looking for. I’ve seen on here people post their mistakes. Dealing with what they do, like a soldier in combat, it’s extremely risky & stressful- they will probably suffer PTSD.
Thank you Biden & those who voted for him to let millions in illegally to where we have this situation which will probably take years to correct.

Why is it necessary to defend them because they are called Nazis?

Because that rhetoric is false. The left is using that to “scare the public” . They are not doing ethnic cleansing and putting them in concentration camps and killing them like NAZIs did the Jews. Millions poured into our country illegally & so the NAZI accusation is FALSE and used to scare & divide people. Trump was elected for “one “ (among many) reasons to take care of this problem. He secured the borders successfully as should be, asked illegals to self deport and a lot have but millions have not but they are offered $1000 tabs a free pane trip back “home” then an opportunity to enter back legally.
Of course that stinks for democrats who were counting on their illegal “votes” as they were pushing for and were given illegal drivers license.
All this is nothing like NAZI Germany. Trump didn’t invent Homeland Security. nor ICE.

Politics has always had a lot of false rhetoric that has been used to advance political platforms. Politics is like the wind. For four years it blows one way and then if the opposing party wins it blows the other way. There's nothing stable about it. The hypocrisy on both sides is rampant these days. That is why I believe it is becoming more and more important for followers of Jesus to disassociate themselves from defending such instability (whatever the side) and focus on making a difference for the Kingdom of Jesus.

[ken_sylvania]

Because a soldier goes through boot camp and ICE is up against the enemy every single day.

ICE is up against a military enemy every single day? We are at war?

I think that's what some politicians have implied. We are in a civil war, we are fighting "the enemy within", which means "people who seriously disagree with us and what we are doing". But democracy means having room for different opinions and values.

Thought experiment: Do a Google Image search for "paramilitary". Now do a Google Image search for "ICE agents Minnesota". Compare the two.

https://www.google.com/search?q=paramilitary&tbm=isch

https://www.google.com/search?q=ICE+Age ... a&tbm=isch

Compare the first two to "police":

https://www.google.com/search?q=police&tbm=isch

The rhetoric treats ICE agents as paramilitary forces against the "enemy within". Do we want something like a civil war or do we want democracy? Are paramilitary troops in American cities the usual way to promote democracy?

Now compare to "police in action".
https://www.google.com/search?q=police+in+action&udm=2

If the "optics" are what is in focus (apparently so, if what we're looking at is the googly images) then it seems to make sense to strip out the staged press release pics.

Anyway, police are a paramilitary force as is ICE.

[temporal1]

1) Politics has always had a lot of false rhetoric that has been used to advance political platforms. Politics is like the wind. For four years it blows one way and then if the opposing party wins it blows the other way. There's nothing stable about it. The hypocrisy on both sides is rampant these days.

2) That is why I believe it is becoming more and more important for followers of Jesus to disassociate themselves from defending such instability (whatever the side) and focus on making a difference for the Kingdom of Jesus.

1) For most of my life, i saw it like this, and increasngly so with time. i began to hear talk of career politicians, and, little or no difference between parties. i wasn’t interested in politics, evenso, one hears things. The phrase “do nothing Congress” with very low approval ratings to back it up, became known - with Congress people completely unconcerned.

i’ve lived long enough to now see the unexpected: cages rattled. careers threatened.
With billions+trillions at stake, there can be no surprise at extreme pushback. Altho a pinnacle for Christians, honest admission of guilt, willingness to repent and correct sins+crimes, is foreign to human nature and human schools of law.

Nothing is a done deal. This is a Battle Royale, it’s tbd where it will go.
i’m impressed to witness serious attempts to face it. It’s beyond dangerous work. i pray for the best. For God’s will.

2) Unchanging agreement.

[JimFoxvog]

Because a soldier goes through boot camp and ICE is up against the enemy every single day.

This attitude is the problem. People of color are now "the enemy". Peaceful protestors are now "the enemy". People who are driving by an ICE "operation" are now "the enemy".

Actually, ICE is the enemy of democracy in the USA. As such, we should love them and pray for them. My first prayer would be for their repentance, laying down their arms, and refusing to abuse people, no matter what they are ordered to do. The best thing for the ICE agents would be to totally defund ICE and let the agents get honest, peaceful jobs.

[Valerie]

Because a soldier goes through boot camp and ICE is up against the enemy every single day.

This attitude is the problem. People of color are now "the enemy". Peaceful protestors are now "the enemy". People who are driving by an ICE "operation" are now "the enemy".

Actually, ICE is the enemy of democracy in the USA. As such, we should love them and pray for them. My first prayer would be for their repentance, laying down their arms, and refusing to abuse people, no matter what they are ordered to do. The best thing for the ICE agents would be to totally defund ICE and let the agents get honest, peaceful jobs.

See THAT is the problem. False accusations. Pulling the “race card” and that sort of rhetoric is getting very tiresome.

The enemy they are facing is mostly rebellious white people that promote disobeying the law & spray painting things like the only good ice agent is a dead ice agent on cars breaking their windows stealing things that are a federal protection. Those enemies. And frankly an enemy when a federal agent is trying to do their orders is one who resist them. Doesn’t matter what color they are so please don’t pull that on me.

[JohnH]

Because a soldier goes through boot camp and ICE is up against the enemy every single day.

This attitude is the problem. People of color are now "the enemy". Peaceful protestors are now "the enemy". People who are driving by an ICE "operation" are now "the enemy".

Actually, ICE is the enemy of democracy in the USA. As such, we should love them and pray for them. My first prayer would be for their repentance, laying down their arms, and refusing to abuse people, no matter what they are ordered to do. The best thing for the ICE agents would be to totally defund ICE and let the agents get honest, peaceful jobs.

Jim,

Can you propose how to you would remove illegal aliens who are high on the list for removal due to a history of being convicted of violent crimes?

Part of democracy means accepting the results of elections. The candidates and party that won the last election ran on a platform of mass deportations.

[Bootstrap]

Can you propose how to you would remove illegal aliens who are high on the list for removal due to a history of being convicted of violent crimes?

By doing exactly that: focus on those people.

Fund the immigration courts and hire more immigration judges, because that’s where the real bottleneck is. If someone is already high on the priority list due to a violent criminal conviction, the system already knows who they are and where they are. Most of the people they are now deporting have no record of violent crimes at all

There’s no need to militarize enforcement or treat whole communities as suspect. We do not need a police state. Local and federal law enforcement already arrest people convicted of violent crimes all the time. After arrest, cases should move quickly through properly funded immigration courts, with warrants, hearings, and clear judicial orders.

Part of democracy means accepting the results of elections. The candidates and party that won the last election ran on a platform of mass deportations.

Democracy does not mean we suspend the Bill of Rights. Winning an election does not mean the president can bypass due process or other basic rights. That is precisely what the Bill of Rights is meant to prevent.

And this approach isn't even popular. 63% of Americans oppose what ICE is doing.Popular is not the same thing as constitutional or moral, but this is not even popular. Popular is not the same thing as moral or constitutional, but this is not even popular.

[JohnH]

Can you propose how to you would remove illegal aliens who are high on the list for removal due to a history of being convicted of violent crimes?

By doing exactly that: focus on those people.

Fund the immigration courts and hire more immigration judges, because that’s where the real bottleneck is.

No it isn’t. The removal orders already exist. How are more judges going to help?

If someone is already high on the priority list due to a violent criminal conviction, the system already knows who they are and where they are.

How does the system know that? Violent criminals are not very diligent at updating the government with their current address.

Most of the people they are now deporting have no record of violent crimes at all

Is there something wrong with that?

There’s no need to militarize enforcement or treat whole communities as suspect. We do not need a police state. Local and federal law enforcement already arrest people convicted of violent crimes all the time. After arrest, cases should move quickly through properly funded immigration courts, with warrants, hearings, and clear judicial orders.

None of that is required by law to remove people who have entered illegally. They are subject to immediate removal by law.

No warrants are required by law either. Nor “hearings”.

Democracy does not mean we suspend the Bill of Rights. Winning an election does not mean the president can bypass due process or other basic rights. That is precisely what the Bill of Rights is meant to prevent.

The bill of rights doesn’t say illegal aliens can’t be deported. Deportation is not a punishment nor is it incarceration. The remedy for someone wrongfully deported is to simply let them re-enter. I think you are confusing illegal entry, deportation and immigration enforcement with crimes, punishment, and trials.

Boot, do you really think the law requires from Article III court proceeding with a grand jury indictment, a prosecution, etc before a deportation can happen?

[Bootstrap]

Can you propose how to you would remove illegal aliens who are high on the list for removal due to a history of being convicted of violent crimes?

By doing exactly that: focus on those people.

Fund the immigration courts and hire more immigration judges, because that’s where the real bottleneck is.

No it isn’t. The removal orders already exist. How are more judges going to help

Actually, that’s exactly why you need immigration judges. If someone doesn’t already have a final removal order, a judge is the only way to get one legally. Enforcement agents can’t create removal orders on their own.

Many people who are being picked up do not have final removal orders. In fact, there are documented cases of citizens and lawful permanent residents being arrested or detained.

So if you want to speed up deportation legally, what you need is judges, hearings, and final orders.

Bypassing that with a paramilitary force and "shock and awe" is disregard for the rule of law and the constitution. And playing paramilitary "shock and awe" in American neighborhoods ... that's a scary step to take.

[JimFoxvog]

See THAT is the problem. False accusations. Pulling the “race card” and that sort of rhetoric is getting very tiresome.

What do you consider a "false accusation"?

When Minnesota police chiefs testify that their off-duty officers are being stopped by ICE, but only those who don't look "white", maybe we should consider that there actually is racial profiling going on.