Civil War-again?

[JohnH]

There’s video of it from several angles. It’s obvious.

If you are talking about Jonathan Ross and Renee Good, the videos are clear that she was not trying to ram him.

The videos made it clear to me she was.

Going around is one fairly obviously AI-generated "video" from overhead that shows the car going toward an image of Ross, but its creator admits it was generated by AI. No drone footage from overhead has been released.

I have not heard or seen such a thing.

Leaning over the hood to shoot, Ross may have come into contact with the car; that's not clear. Good was trying to leave the scene and was turning away to go around Ross.

But maybe there was another incident where a protester did try to hurt someone. I'll agree with you that that would be unjustified and wrong.

Let’s go over some facts:

- One of the bullets went straight through the windshield.

- That was the bullet that struck her, most likely.

- The bullet must have been fired from directly in front of the car to go straight through the windshield and strike the driver.

- The vehicle was placed in Drive and accelerated forward right before shots were fired.

- Thus, the officer who fired must have been right in front of the vehicle.

Renee Good had previously been ordered out of the vehicle after disobeying lawful orders to stop blocking the road. If she had simply complied with lawful orders, her third child would still have a mother. If she had gotten out of the car, she’d still be alive. If she hadn’t blocked the road, she’d be alive. If she had decided not to go to a violent protest she’d be alive.

If her “wife” hadn’t been egging her on to try to get a confrontation with ICE, she’d still be alive.

And if she hadn’t tried to drive right into the officer, she’d still be alive.

[JimFoxvog]

- One of the bullets went straight through the windshield.

- That was the bullet that struck her, most likely.

- The bullet must have been fired from directly in front of the car to go straight through the windshield and strike the driver.

One of the videos makes it clear that Ross was leaning over the hood, reaching his arm out farther, to fire the first shot. His arm was in front of the windshield.

At least 3 bullets struck Renee.

- The vehicle was placed in Drive and accelerated forward right before shots were fired.

The vehicle was moving slowly, turned away from Ross, until Good was shot. Then she no longer had control of the vehicle, and it accelerated dangerously. This was the shooter's fault, not Good's.

[Jazman]

The vehicle was moving slowly, turned away from Ross, until Good was shot. Then she no longer had control of the vehicle, and it accelerated dangerously. This was the shooter's fault, not Good's.

And I believe on that basis alone (the bolded part) that the admin and its ministries of propaganda claim that Good was a "domestic terrorist'... Lies made up to excuse at best, gross negligence on the officer's part (real law enforcement are trained not to do what he did precisely to avoid a vehicle out of control causing more harm) or at worse, murder.

[Jazman]

In Princeton, Illinois, we've had hundreds of people lining Main Street. Although there have been a few "Foxtrot Delta Tango" signs, the crowds have mostly been good-spirited. I've watched the videos of thousands and tens of thousands marching peacefully in bigger cities. No nightmare. Maybe massive resistance is a nightmare to tyrants.

Keeping track of ICE, blowing whistles, or even shouting "shame" when people are attacked by ICE should only give oppressors nightmares.

And those things aren't illegal... not one of those things will earn a fine, charge or incarceration in a court of law...nor should they, especially if done on public property, roads, sidewalks etc - the tyrant and his mobs seem to think that if they dislike something, then it's illegal and should be punished with force from the state...

[Bootstrap]

In Princeton, Illinois, we've had hundreds of people lining Main Street. Although there have been a few "Foxtrot Delta Tango" signs, the crowds have mostly been good-spirited. I've watched the videos of thousands and tens of thousands marching peacefully in bigger cities. No nightmare. Maybe massive resistance is a nightmare to tyrants.

Keeping track of ICE, blowing whistles, or even shouting "shame" when people are attacked by ICE should only give oppressors nightmares.

And those things aren't illegal... not one of those things will earn a fine, charge or incarceration in a court of law...nor should they, especially if done on public property, roads, sidewalks etc - the tyrant and his mobs seem to think that if they dislike something, then it's illegal and should be punished with force from the state...

Are you saying you believe in the 1st Amendment?

And perhaps also the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 8th Amendments?

[JohnH]

Interesting how none of that applied to anyone in January 6 (when no one attempted to kill any officers).

Yet obviously ramming an officer with a vehicle is now a “constitutional right”.

[temporal1]

P.1:

i’ve heard varying warnings of a second Civil War since i was achild. Thankfully, no version has arisen.

In my view, and hope, i think it’s unlikely.
1) demographics. the population is so mixed-race, i’m not sure any family (or extended family) isn’t mixed.
2) geography. the divides are largely urban/rural, all over the country, making it very awkward to organize.

Reports seem to reflect, old college educated liberal white women are the most active group.
(Without grandchildren?) Is that a factor?

“The spirit may be willing” (the mouth may be willing) .. the flesh is arthritic.

It wouldn’t be over the same issues but I’ve never seen the country this vehemently divided in my lifetime, it would be hard to organize something. Before it was by states but it wasn’t as cut & dry as I thought.

i keep telling myself it’s an illusion of the internet, which i don’t believe we’re really very good with yet.

i try to keep in mind how well i see people treat one another (everywhere, in real life) and how often i see small courtesies between (sometimes unlikey-appearng people, of all ages). i often/usually feel i’m in a minority race when shopping and traveling, i see interracial respect, many ethnicities, with few exceptions. i’ve always lived in mixed communities, in recent years i find it odd if i see majority white anything. In both rural Illinois and WA.

i think people are unnerved (from 24/7 noise) but long for peace. i see faces longing for peace everywhere i go.
i know most are struggling. we all seem to know we’re in the same leaky boat.

Sadly, i have to backtrack from November, at least somewhat.

Evidently, loving enemies means labeling them tyrants, oppressors, throwing out every horrible allegation imaginable, while engaging in physical passive-aggressive and aggressive resistence, stretched to the limits of legal language, is of the highest+best response some Christians can come up with. Knowing others, not CO, not Christian, are simultaneously taking violence further. Which, why wouldn’t they?

i know tactical name-calling and belligerence have served me very well all my life.

i agree with you, Valerie.
The criminals responsible for VAST fraud against the U.S. Public Treasury are pulling out all stops to distract from being held accountable. Courts are accustomed to this type of behavior, it presents in early childhood, carries forward into the highest elected offices. Multiple billions are on the godless table. So. Expect the worst.

i recommend deeper faith to endure it.

[temporal1]

Interesting how none of that applied to anyone in January 6 (when no one attempted to kill any officers).

Yet obviously ramming an officer with a vehicle is now a “constitutional right”.

Evidently, some believe the aggressive hateful rhetoric of Walz+Omar at face value and are eager to act on it.
i’m more cautious, considering human nature and grave allegations they and others are facing. i prefer to wait it out.

prayers for the greater good to eventually be served.

[Bootstrap]

Interesting how none of that applied to anyone in January 6 (when no one attempted to kill any officers).

Yet obviously ramming an officer with a vehicle is now a “constitutional right”.

If, in fact, Good was trying to ram an officer with a vehicle, the investigation would normally say that was justifiable. But that investigation really should happen.

Normally, when a law-enforcement officer shoots someone, we hear about a neutral, transparent investigation, and authorities avoid announcing conclusions until the review is complete. Often, this investigation involves multiple agencies, local and federal. But here, federal officials have publicly said they will not investigate the ICE agent’s use of force in the killing of Renée Good, even though video and independent analysis raise serious questions about what happened.

That is not how these cases are usually handled.

In the January 6th shooting, the US Capitol Police did an internal investigation. They interviewed witnesses, reviewed body-camera and surveillance footage, and examined communications from the scene. They concluded that the officer's actions were lawful and within departmental policy.

There was also a joint criminal investigation, conducted by the U.S. Attorney’s Office & DOJ Civil Rights Division. They determined that there was not sufficienbt evidence to prove a willful violation of civil rights laws, and decided not to bring criminal charges against the officer who shot her.

Babbitt’s family later filed a wrongful death civil lawsuit against the federal government. The Trump Administration agreed to a nearly $5 million settlement to resolve that suit, even though both the DOJ and U.S. Capitol Police had previously found the shooting lawful.

So when a protester is shot in Minnesota, I think it is entirely reasonable to ask for the same kind of neutral, transparent investigation into the shooting itself. Culture-war arguments on internet forums are no substitute for due process.

[Bootstrap]

If you are talking about Jonathan Ross and Renee Good, the videos are clear that she was not trying to ram him.

The videos made it clear to me she was.

That’s exactly why this needs a thorough, transparent review by investigators: side-by-side comparisons of all footage and eyewitness accounts.

Video evidence can seem to support conflicting narratives depending on angle, timing, and context, and that’s why people in this case are calling for independent analysis: so trained reviewers and, if it comes to that, juries can evaluate all the evidence together rather than impressions from isolated snippets.