Civil War-again?

[JohnH]

ICE is removing people with removal orders.

ICE is violently detaining people without knowing who they are. They have often even refused to look at their victims IDs that prove they are citizens or legal residents.

What about not so peaceful protesting, such as blocking roads or attempting to run over federal employees?

Blocking roads can be peaceful civil disobedience. Those who do so should not resist arrest, which is justified. No one should attempt to run people over, as ICE has been shown to do repeatedly. I don't know if this describes any protester, but if so, it is a crime for which they should be arrested--as should the ICE officers who have done this.

So far, the protesters have been quite violent.

I think disrupting and ending a Baptist church service is wrong and unacceptable, particularly one with such loud shouting and screaming that frightened children start fleeing the building.

I think targeting a Baptist church because the pastor has the same name as an ICE employee is wrong.

I don’t see anyone on the left, including the Christian left, speaking up against this.

I don’t think violent insurrections against the federal government are a good thing. They need to stop. Protesters do not need to block traffic.

I don’t think legitimate protesters would drag a counter-protester away and injure and stab him, either.

All of the above just happened.

[Southerner]

I think targeting a Baptist church because the pastor has the same name as an ICE employee is wrong.

The pastor is the head honcho at the ICE St Paul branch. He is asking for it. Masked men...looks like a banana republic.

[JimFoxvog]

I'm in agreement that violent protest is wrong. It is wrong both morally and is a foolish tactic. Some of us suspect these few violent people are agent provocateurs, sent to discredit the movement. Probably not all of them are; people are getting angry, which is what the regime wants, so it can crack down harder. I am spending a bit of effort trying to counter those calling for violence. Their anger is justified, but this is not the way to go.

[Southerner]

I'm in agreement that violent protest is wrong.

I have not been following the St Paul protest closely...are they as violent as January 6th?

[R7ehr]

I think targeting a Baptist church because the pastor has the same name as an ICE employee is wrong.

The pastor is the head honcho at the ICE St Paul branch. He is asking for it. Masked men...looks like a banana republic.

Speaking of banana republics. I remember being in multiple 3rd world countries back in the 1990’s and being negatively impressed how much their political efforts focused of the candidate instead of issues. Putting the pictures of the candidate on walls, each party painting stuff in the party colors, slogans, etc, fervently needing their guy to win. It all seemed so…I don’t know…unsophisticated? Juvenile? Like they worshipped the man, and believed that he alone would bring them relief, and year after year nothing much would change.
Now I see the same sort of thing creeping into this country. I hope it’s cyclical and not a one way slide.
I think the nations are better served if ideas could be debated and negotiated, and politicians stood for things, instead of strictly playing follow the leader. I think is most apparent now with the Republican Party, I don’t know how much of that is because Democrats are out of power.

[temporal1]

creeping

it roared in with obama. along with a lotta other things. i’m trying to recover.

in T’s first term, i read various gov schools and other gov buildings refused to hang his pic., as was the standing custom for presidents.
and, many individuals chose not to use political signage on businesses, residences, bumper stickers, etc., their usual custom, believing it would attract theft and vandalism. i don’t do any of those things.

[JohnH]

I think targeting a Baptist church because the pastor has the same name as an ICE employee is wrong.

The pastor is the head honcho at the ICE St Paul branch. He is asking for it. Masked men...looks like a banana republic.

Is he?

I don’t see the pastor wearing a mask, although back in 2020 the state would have required him to do so at a church service.

Even if he is, is that a valid reason to disrupt a worship service? Do you hold a stance that Baptists can’t work government jobs or something?

[JimFoxvog]

I'm in agreement that violent protest is wrong.

I have not been following the St Paul protest closely...are they as violent as January 6th?

No, they are not attacking law enforcement on a large scale with potentially deadly weapons.

Snowballs have been thrown, though. In other times and places, snowballs have concealed hard objects inside them.

I have heard accusations of trying to run ICE agents over with vehicles, but I don't know if that's been verified.

[JohnH]

I'm in agreement that violent protest is wrong.

I have not been following the St Paul protest closely...are they as violent as January 6th?

No, they are not attacking law enforcement on a large scale with potentially deadly weapons.

Using a car to ram someone is using it as a deadly weapon.

However, I am unaware of any deadly weapon used at January 6. I am aware of one unarmed protester who was murdered by a police officer, though.

Snowballs have been thrown, though. In other times and places, snowballs have concealed hard objects inside them.

That’s not part of a lawful protest then.

I have heard accusations of trying to run ICE agents over with vehicles, but I don't know if that's been verified.

There’s video of it from several angles. It’s obvious.

[JimFoxvog]

There’s video of it from several angles. It’s obvious.

If you are talking about Jonathan Ross and Renee Good, the videos are clear that she was not trying to ram him. Going around is one fairly obviously AI-generated "video" from overhead that shows the car going toward an image of Ross, but its creator admits it was generated by AI. No drone footage from overhead has been released.

Leaning over the hood to shoot, Ross may have come into contact with the car; that's not clear. Good was trying to leave the scene and was turning away to go around Ross.

But maybe there was another incident where a protester did try to hurt someone. I'll agree with you that that would be unjustified and wrong.