Civil War-again?

[JimFoxvog]

What is the alternative to Civil War? Today, as we honor Martin Luther King, Jr., let us think of his Christian response to institutional injustice.

Peaceful, large-scale resistance is the duty of the faithful.

[JohnH]

What is the alternative to Civil War? Today, as we honor Martin Luther King, Jr., let us think of his Christian response to institutional injustice.

Peaceful, large-scale resistance is the duty of the faithful.

Does that include attempting to impede federal government officers, such as blocking public roadways or following a federal employee to their home?

[Valerie]

What is the alternative to Civil War? Today, as we honor Martin Luther King, Jr., let us think of his Christian response to institutional injustice.

Peaceful, large-scale resistance is the duty of the faithful.

He had a “dream” current protesters are a nightmare. Big difference.

[JimFoxvog]

In Princeton, Illinois, we've had hundreds of people lining Main Street. Although there have been a few "Foxtrot Delta Tango" signs, the crowds have mostly been good-spirited. I've watched the videos of thousands and tens of thousands marching peacefully in bigger cities. No nightmare. Maybe massive resistance is a nightmare to tyrants.

Keeping track of ICE, blowing whistles, or even shouting "shame" when people are attacked by ICE should only give oppressors nightmares.

[JohnH]

In Princeton, Illinois, we've had hundreds of people lining Main Street. Although there have been a few "Foxtrot Delta Tango" signs, the crowds have mostly been good-spirited. I've watched the videos of thousands and tens of thousands marching peacefully in bigger cities. No nightmare. Maybe massive resistance is a nightmare to tyrants.

Keeping track of ICE, blowing whistles, or even shouting "shame" when people are attacked by ICE should only give oppressors nightmares.

Would you support similar resistance against:

- IRS agents trying to conduct audits of the wealthy, or against deputies enforcing liens / seizures to pay back taxes?
- National Guard deployed to force school integration?
- FBI investigating and arresting protesters at abortion clinics?
- FBI arresting political protesters?

[JimFoxvog]

Does that include attempting to impede federal government officers, such as blocking public roadways or following a federal employee to their home?

In 1930s Germany, should true Christians just have continued to be nice as their neighbors were being dragged away? What do you think would have been the appropriate response?

If following a federal employee to their home helps that employee turn from doing evil, it might help them avoid a criminal trial when the current regime ends.

[JimFoxvog]

Would you support similar resistance against:

- IRS agents trying to conduct audits of the wealthy, or against deputies enforcing liens / seizures to pay back taxes?
- National Guard deployed to force school integration?
- FBI investigating and arresting protesters at abortion clinics?
- FBI arresting political protesters?

The first is targeting specific people for probable cause, not attacking large demographic groups because of their apparent ethnicity.

School integration was being protected by the National Guard.

The FBI should not arrest anyone for protesting, whether the cause is one I support or one I oppose. Yes--peaceful resistance would be justified.

What do you think German Christians should have done in the 1930s when their neighbors were being taken away, never to return?

[JohnH]

Would you support similar resistance against:

- IRS agents trying to conduct audits of the wealthy, or against deputies enforcing liens / seizures to pay back taxes?
- National Guard deployed to force school integration?
- FBI investigating and arresting protesters at abortion clinics?
- FBI arresting political protesters?

The first is targeting specific people for probable cause, not attacking large demographic groups because of their apparent ethnicity.

ICE is removing people with removal orders. It’s the same thing as an IRS agent who has an order to seize property.

School integration was being protected by the National Guard.

Right. I’m asking if resisting the federal government forcing school integration was right, as you seem to be claiming resisting the federal government now is.

The FBI should not arrest anyone for protesting, whether the cause is one I support or one I oppose. Yes--peaceful resistance would be justified.

What about not so peaceful protesting, such as blocking roads or attempting to run over federal employees?

What do you think German Christians should have done in the 1930s when their neighbors were being taken away, never to return?

I don’t think a violent uprising was the answer.

Ultimately, the answer to 1930s Germany was for armed men with guns to parachute into their territory and take it over by force. Is that what you’re saying is good for the Minnesota protesters to do?

I don’t think supporting an insurrection against the federal government is a good idea, and I’ve been consistent about speaking against this for the last 6 years. I also don’t want protesters arrested, imprisoned as political prisoners, and tortured in prison and not given fair trials either.

[JimFoxvog]

ICE is removing people with removal orders.

ICE is violently detaining people without knowing who they are. They have often even refused to look at their victims IDs that prove they are citizens or legal residents.

What about not so peaceful protesting, such as blocking roads or attempting to run over federal employees?

Blocking roads can be peaceful civil disobedience. Those who do so should not resist arrest, which is justified. No one should attempt to run people over, as ICE has been shown to do repeatedly. I don't know if this describes any protester, but if so, it is a crime for which they should be arrested--as should the ICE officers who have done this.

[Valerie]

ICE is removing people with removal orders.

ICE is violently detaining people without knowing who they are. They have often even refused to look at their victims IDs that prove they are citizens or legal residents.

What about not so peaceful protesting, such as blocking roads or attempting to run over federal employees?

Blocking roads can be peaceful civil disobedience. Those who do so should not resist arrest, which is justified. No one should attempt to run people over, as ICE has been shown to do repeatedly. I don't know if this describes any protester, but if so, it is a crime for which they should be arrested--as should the ICE officers who have done this.

Blocking roads is interfering and obstructing. Illegal. People attack ICE and could easily kill them with their tactics.
ICE is working well in cooperative states. As it should be.