Conservatism and Progressivism - It's impact on missions.

[R7ehr]

Actually the stereo type for missionaries is that they are out of fashion, and just generally out of date. Maybe if someone is experiencing growing discontent with the direction their home congregation is headed, they should go to the mission field. Then when they return the home congregation will be so obviously different that it will be easy to find a more conservative one. (Speaking from experience here....)

Yes. I can think of multiple people who left their congregation, did mission work, and changed churches when their mission was done. It’s almost a trope at this point, if you know someone isn’t really happy where they are at, and you hear they are going on a mission, the assumption is that they probably won’t return to their own church.
And if someone isn’t happy at their church, but want to maintain good relationships there, the joke is that they need to find a mission somewhere.

[ohio jones]

In the meantime, let's start planting the vision in the minds of 20, 30, and 40 year olds so that we can see 500 couples mobilized every decade in the near future.

From what groups? Obviously a BMA type group and pilgrim, nationwide etc won’t be able to work together. Old Orders woman either. The Holdemans already have extensive missions established in Mexico, American cities and other places and other groups wouldn’t want to work with us anyway.

The unreached world is large enough that people who are unable to work together don't have to go to the same location.

[JohnH]

In the meantime, let's start planting the vision in the minds of 20, 30, and 40 year olds so that we can see 500 couples mobilized every decade in the near future.

From what groups? Obviously a BMA type group and pilgrim, nationwide etc won’t be able to work together. Old Orders woman either. The Holdemans already have extensive missions established in Mexico, American cities and other places and other groups wouldn’t want to work with us anyway.

The unreached world is large enough that people who are unable to work together don't have to go to the same location.

There isn’t a constituency large enough to have 500 elderly couples, particularly if only 1% go, other than the OOA.

[ohio jones]

From what groups? Obviously a BMA type group and pilgrim, nationwide etc won’t be able to work together. Old Orders woman either. The Holdemans already have extensive missions established in Mexico, American cities and other places and other groups wouldn’t want to work with us anyway.

The unreached world is large enough that people who are unable to work together don't have to go to the same location.

There isn’t a constituency large enough to have 500 elderly couples, particularly if only 1% go, other than the OOA.

Is someone saying they all have to be from the same constituency?

[mike]

Actually the stereo type for missionaries is that they are out of fashion, and just generally out of date. Maybe if someone is experiencing growing discontent with the direction their home congregation is headed, they should go to the mission field. Then when they return the home congregation will be so obviously different that it will be easy to find a more conservative one. (Speaking from experience here....)

Yes. I can think of multiple people who left their congregation, did mission work, and changed churches when their mission was done. It’s almost a trope at this point, if you know someone isn’t really happy where they are at, and you hear they are going on a mission, the assumption is that they probably won’t return to their own church.
And if someone isn’t happy at their church, but want to maintain good relationships there, the joke is that they need to find a mission somewhere.

This is what I have heard from people in our conference. We've had various folks from our congregation spend time in foreign missions since we were here and they all came back. I've heard of some that didn't, and I heard our former bishop complain about this in a sermon once, so apparently it's a thing.

[JohnH]

The unreached world is large enough that people who are unable to work together don't have to go to the same location.

There isn’t a constituency large enough to have 500 elderly couples, particularly if only 1% go, other than the OOA.

Is someone saying they all have to be from the same constituency?

Do you think a mission composed of couples from:

- Old Order Amish who recently accepted home Internet use
- Danner Amish
- Apostolic Christians
- Holdemans
- Beachys who listen to the radio
- Beachys who remove the radios from their cars
- RNC people who consider veils and nonresistance optional
- Eastern people who consider plain coats mandatory
- German Baptists who believe new converts should be fully immersed
- Charity people who consider half the people in this list to be legalists
- Moderate conservatives who watch entertainment DVDs
- Pilgrim people who consider watching entertainment a sin

are going to have any chance at all of being much of a witness to new believers in foreign lands as a united body?

Of the constituency above only OOA and maybe Holdemans have enough population to run a mass mission program relying on 1% of older couple population. OOA don’t even believe in doing foreign missions.

For anyone who believes this is possible, I would like you to come labour with me in the mission field here in Ohio. I am very good at putting sectarian differences aside, although I have tended to put my foot down once a hardline Baptist showed up and made it his personal mission to get people to say the sinner’s prayer and then rejoice that such people now have eternal security (to give one example).

[Ernie]

The unreached world is large enough that people who are unable to work together don't have to go to the same location.

There isn’t a constituency large enough to have 500 elderly couples, particularly if only 1% go, other than the OOA.

Is someone saying they all have to be from the same constituency?

I'm suggesting that 500 empty nesters (which some reach by age 55 or 60), from all across the Plain Anabaptist spectrum, would go to different areas, and plant a church. If they wanted to be 10 or 15 minutes away from another couple from the same constituency who is doing the same thing, more power to them.

If we divided the world's population into groups of 5000 people (plenty enough to do a church plant among) that means there is room for 1.6 million church plants. It will take a long time for Plain Anabaptist and other pilgrim church folks/kingdom Christians to get that many churches planted. Some people have wild dreams for church expansion and I don't want to dampen enthusiasm at all. But 500 couples per decade feels very doable to me.

And it would not need to be just married couples. Patrick of Ireland prepared for 30 years to be a church planter. And when he finally got a blessing, he is surmised by some to be the most effective missionary since the Apostle Paul.

[JohnH]

I'm suggesting that 500 empty nesters (which some reach by age 55 or 60), from all across the Plain Anabaptist spectrum, would go to different areas, and plant a church. If they wanted to be 10 or 15 minutes away from another couple doing the same thing, more power to them.

Okay that makes sense. Holdemans already do this, although both young couples and older couples go. This has resulted in lots of successful church plants and eventually just more churches.

Apostolic Pentecostals do an even better job. It’s basically all they care about is going and planting new churches. If one fails, they will just go and try again somewhere else.

If we divided the world's population into groups of 5000 people (plenty enough to do a church plant among) that means there is room for 1.6 million church plants. It will take a long time for Plain Anabaptist and other pilgrim church folks/kingdom Christians to get that many churches planted. Some people have wild dreams for church expansion and I don't want to dampen enthusiasm at all. But 500 couples per decade feels very doable to me.

An issue is that most plain groups don’t want to do this. Old Order type of groups don’t do missions at all. They have a colonization model.

The more liberal groups have a mission agency model where a missionary has to run around begging for donations and giving presentations with pictures of poor people getting wells or something. So the money and resources flow to the person who is the best salesman.

Nationwides, Holdemans, and a few other ultra type groups simply sponsor missions and expect every member to support it. And it shows in the results. Nationwides are the only people who have managed to establish churches in my home country. Everyone else has failed, or never tried because it is just too hard to get in and then too expensive to stay.

Nationwides and Eastern peope will establish a church anywhere there is 1 convert.

[mike]

Nationwides and Eastern peope will establish a church anywhere there is 1 convert.

From what I have observed, Eastern will put forth incredible effort to help even one or two converts or potential converts. Including the effort that it takes to integrate them into their school, something that takes a lot of investment. And it has brought good fruit for them at least in a case that I have seen.

[Ernie]

Nationwides and Eastern peope will establish a church anywhere there is 1 convert.

From what I have observed, Eastern will put forth incredible effort to help even one or two converts or potential converts. Including the effort that it takes to integrate them into their school, something that takes a lot of investment. And it has brought good fruit for them at least in a case that I have seen.

I admire anyone who is willing to sacrifice and invest in the Kingdom.

Having said that, the ultra-conservatives have struggled to start churches that are led and comprised of the local inhabitants, churches that are independent from American oversight, and churches that are reproducible.

But I still admire them for being willing to invest and go long term, rather than getting caught up in the American dream. I admire them for their commitment to establishing a church, rather than going about church planting in a haphazard way.