Conservatism and Progressivism - It's impact on missions.

[Ernie]

In this thread, I would like to specifically look at the impact of conservatism and progressivism and its impact on missions. Side topics such as retention of members, attrition, etc. can also be discussed but I want to keep the focus on missions.
One of the noteworthy things about the early Anabaptists was their sense of mission. They wanted their understanding of the Gospel to permeate all of Europe and beyond. The late Wayne-in-Maine noted that the early Anabaptists revived something that had been nearly extinct for centuries.
Mainstream and Progressive Anabaptists have started thousands of indigenous churches around the world. In general, Conservative Anabaptists have a very difficult time planting indigenous churches and keeping them networked without a lot of investment from the US.
People like John L. Ruth recognize the good of Old Orders and Conservatives, but at the same time, he relishes all the folks around the world who got introduced to Jesus, that the conservatives would never have gotten to.

The big question in my mind is, if conservatives had kept up the fervor for missions that they had from say 1900-1950, and not conceded to the cultural pressures, could there be conservative churches all over the world at this time. There are conservative churches all over the world but not many that are led or coached by non-ethnic Swiss/Germans.

I realize I'm making some assumptions on your definition of "conservative" and "progressive", but from my limited time in a couple other countries, and interacting with various anabaptists living (or having lived) in other countries, I would be inclined to answer your question (bolded above) with a "no", based on two factors - a difference between the perspectives of indigenous cultures and the Swiss-German "order"-inclined cultures of conservative Anabaptists, and also the economic support inherently required in maintaining much of the forms of conservative Anabaptist groups, which conservative Anabaptists (generally speaking) fail to invest (if it would even be effective) in order to impose (not the ideal word, but bear with me) conservative Anabaptist culture upon indigenous cultures.

There are a lot of different ways of doing church planting in foreign countries by Plain people today. Your assessment is accurate I think for many present day missions.

So this raises another question... Did conservatives in the first half of the 20th century attempt church planting in foreign countries the way many conservative Mennonites do today? Or did they have a noticeably different way of going about it?

[Ernie]

We just had a church planting couple in our home this afternoon for a couple of hours. Empty nesters.
They are planting what I would call an "autochthonous" church in Mexico among Spanish speaking folks. They have been alone in this mission now for about 6 years. They are open to another American couple or two joining them to help with discipling new believers, but they are very aware that it needs to be the right kind of people. So, they are not soliciting help at this point but are rather letting the Lord send them helpers if he sees fit.

Their attendance is currently around 30-35 people, sometimes 50. About 10 baptized members. Recently the church planter met with 5 Mexican brothers to have them choose out from among them a couple brothers to help with the teaching.

It started as a Bible study in the church planter's living room until they outgrew that. Then they met on their roof top. After a couple years, a lady two doors down the street offered her covered patio as a place to meet. For two years she wondered how to get an invitation to the church gatherings but didn't know how to get one. Finally, she stopped a church goer one day and asked what she needs to do to get an invite.
The church planters with shame tell the story of... "Two doors. Two years."

These folks rarely miss having German folks to hang out with. They have made their Hispanic neighbors their social circle and they love them.

What do you think could be done to get 500 Anabaptist couples to do something like this?

[mike]

What do you think could be done to get 500 Anabaptist couples to do something like this?

Tearing oneself out of a community is a very difficult thing to do.

[Ernie]

What do you think could be done to get 500 Anabaptist couples to do something like this?

Tearing oneself out of a community is a very difficult thing to do.

So what could be done to help more people be willing to do this?

I heard of some parents who raised their children with such simple living, that for them to move anywhere in a developing country would be very natural or maybe even a step up.
This is not how our church planter friends in Mexico lived while they were in the US. So I don't think this is the only answer. But living simply all through life is a good help.

Another thing might be to prepare for such a prospect all one's life. The couple in Mexico did this for years.

[JayP]

So, I will share an unfortunate ugly truth. Overall I think most anabaptist missions fail in the end because they do not really offer enough for their version of Christianity to hold OR have so overlayed a culture on their religion that the cultural hurdles are too large.

Obviously that is a generalization, but I think it true.

[JohnH]

They are planting what I would call an "autochthonous" church in Mexico among Spanish speaking folks. They have been alone in this mission now for about 6 years. They are open to another American couple or two joining them to help with discipling new believers, but they are very aware that it needs to be the right kind of people.

Considering Mexico has a large Anabaptist population and has had it for a century as of this year, one wonders why a Mexican couple or two can’t be found.

If the objection is that the Mennonites already in Mexico aren’t the “right” king of Anabaptist, perhaps the question is what makes American background missionaries the “right” kind.

There is something completely tone deaf about sending American missionaries to a country that probably had enough Christians in it. My own experience was in Australia with a mission that eventually failed there; the cultural gap was just too much, and the American plain Anabaptist mindset couldn’t be imposed on even a Western European/British background people successfully with just enough minor differences as one finds between Australia and America.

The one native Australian still left there trying to practice Anabaptism now finds fellowship with Hoover Mennonites (Scottsville type). That should give us a bit of pause.

Ultimately, when what one has to offer is a rapidly acculturating church system I’m not even sure what the point of such a mission is. Evangelical churches already exist in places like Mexico and Australia. There’s no need to spend 20 years trying to be a plain Anabaptist first before ending up in one.

[JohnH]

What do you think could be done to get 500 Anabaptist couples to do something like this?

Tearing oneself out of a community is a very difficult thing to do.

Yet every seeker is asked to do exactly that.

[Soloist]

What do you think could be done to get 500 Anabaptist couples to do something like this?

Tearing oneself out of a community is a very difficult thing to do.

Yet every seeker is asked to do exactly that.

Ironically, this is why I say Mennonites don’t really understand what submission is.

[Ernie]

They are planting what I would call an "autochthonous" church in Mexico among Spanish speaking folks. They have been alone in this mission now for about 6 years. They are open to another American couple or two joining them to help with discipling new believers, but they are very aware that it needs to be the right kind of people.

Considering Mexico has a large Anabaptist population and has had it for a century as of this year, one wonders why a Mexican couple or two can’t be found.

If the objection is that the Mennonites already in Mexico aren’t the “right” king of Anabaptist, perhaps the question is what makes American background missionaries the “right” kind.

These church planters would be fine with Mexican helpers or helpers from anywhere else in the world, provided that the helpers are glad to make the inhabitants their social circle rather than needing people from similar ethnicities around to keep them buoyed up emotionally and socially. That and putting "no greater burden on those who are coming to God" would be the criteria for "the right kind".

There is something completely tone deaf about sending American missionaries to a country that probably had enough Christians in it. My own experience was in Australia with a mission that eventually failed there; the cultural gap was just too much, and the American plain Anabaptist mindset couldn’t be imposed on even a Western European/British background people successfully with just enough minor differences as one finds between Australia and America.

The one native Australian still left there trying to practice Anabaptism now finds fellowship with Hoover Mennonites (Scottsville type). That should give us a bit of pause.

Ultimately, when what one has to offer is a rapidly acculturating church system I’m not even sure what the point of such a mission is. Evangelical churches already exist in places like Mexico and Australia. There’s no need to spend 20 years trying to be a plain Anabaptist first before ending up in one.

Mexico is a large country and there are not Anabaptists scattered throughout. The church plant is in a part of Mexico far from the Anabaptist centers in an area where violence from cartels is common. It is not a place where families with young children would likely want to move to and raise a family. There are likely Evangelicals in the area, but in many areas of the world, there are some people who want a church that teaches non-resistance and simple obedience to the Word of God, and I think it is good to help them form such churches as we have opportunity.

[mike]

What do you think could be done to get 500 Anabaptist couples to do something like this?

Tearing oneself out of a community is a very difficult thing to do.

So what could be done to help more people be willing to do this?

I heard of some parents who raised their children with such simple living, that for them to move anywhere in a developing country would be very natural or maybe even a step up.
This is not how our church planter friends in Mexico lived while they were in the US. So I don't think this is the only answer. But living simply all through life is a good help.

Another thing might be to prepare for such a prospect all one's life. The couple in Mexico did this for years.

I would also add that tearing oneself out of a community is very difficult later in life. To find 500 couples with no children at home, in good health, the means and ability to permanently migrate, and with the vision and skill set that could help them be successful in such a venture, seems like an impossible task. What could be done to make it happen? About the only thing that comes to my mind would be a massive upheaval for American Anabaptists in terms of their economic situation or most likely some form of religious persecution, where they are motivated to move for what is in some way a better situation for them. That's why Anabaptists migrated to America, I believe.