Why do Swiss Anabaptists practice ethnic separatism from other Anabaptists?

[R7ehr]

There are a lot of Russian Mennonites who aren’t Holdemans.

We have people with Russian Mennonite surnames in our Western churches. I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that we exclude them. The more conservative ones, such as ourselves, do generally seem to be from outside the USA and the ones inside the USA are largely either liberal or not in the same geographical area of the Swiss/Germans.

[Ernie]

Holdemans and Apostolics don't claim to publish directories of all Anabaptist churches.

The Mennonite Yearbook attempted to do this for many years. They ended that sometime before the year 2000. Since then, random organizations have printed directories of folks who fit various criteria.

[Soloist]

Wife: to be fair, whichever website is ran by Cory Anderson ended up pointing us initially to an Apostolic church in Oregon because that was closer to us than the Mennonite churches, and we showed up, Soloist went in and saw all the men in suits kissing each other, and we made a run for it.

Well, that would be the case in any plain Anabaptist congregation that still practices the holy kiss. I guess one could publish Anabaptist church directories and exclude any groups that might practice the holy kiss.

Out of curiosity, how many Holdeman or apostolic churches advertise any Swiss anabaptist churches on their churchfinder websites or books? It seems a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.

Holdemans don't have a churchfinder website or book. Holdemans and Apostolics don't claim to publish directories of all Anabaptist churches. They just publish ones of their own specific groups and don't claim anything else.

In any case, the original topic was Russian Mennonites, not Holdemans (along with all the other non-Swiss groups). Most Russian Mennonites aren't Holdemans.

But groups like churchindex.org make this claim:

"A map-index of Anabaptist and similar churches."

When in reality it is not so. It should better be called "A map-index of Anabaptist churches which are primarily composed of people of Swiss Brethren background, and excluding churches that do not have this ethnic background."

Wife: the reason for the laughing face was because of where we ended up. Now who runs churchindex.org and what is Corey Anderson’s website?
As far as it goes, we have gone to one Holdeman church where the guy basically was in the middle of a one true church sermon when we showed up and he said at lunch that all true Christians, if they live long enough, end up in the holdemans. Most of their churches also enforce not going to any non-Holdeman church.
Now the church here and the holdemans actually get along pretty well, and some of them work together, and people have used their church for weddings. Our youth group also collected money at one of their events. I just think you are making sweeping generalizations.

[JohnH]

Wife: the reason for the laughing face was because of where we ended up. Now who runs churchindex.org and what is Corey Anderson’s website?
As far as it goes, we have gone to one Holdeman church where the guy basically was in the middle of a one true church sermon when we showed up and he said at lunch that all true Christians, if they live long enough, end up in the holdemans. Most of their churches also enforce not going to any non-Holdeman church.

I've been a member now 8 years, attending for 9½, at 2 different congregations (some of the more conservative in the conference) and have yet to face any reprimands or other negative feedback about visiting non-Holdeman churches. I am not aware of any such "enforcement". Most Holdemans find, however, they aren't very interested in visiting what are essentially Swiss colonies.

Now the church here and the holdemans actually get along pretty well, and some of them work together, and people have used their church for weddings. Our youth group also collected money at one of their events. I just think you are making sweeping generalizations.

Yes, Holdeman churches in general try to get along with their neighbours. I'm sorry you met someone who made you feel excluded once. Holdemans would not try to hoodwink someone or pretend that Holdemans don't have a one true church doctrine, though.

The generalisation I am making is that, generally speaking, Russian Mennonite-dominated churches (along with Eastern European Anabaptist churches and other groups) are seen as "not plain Anabaptist'" with a litany of various excuses. Yet you will find an institution like churchindex.org merrily includes the churches that sanctioned Jeriah Mast. It becomes painfully obvious it's really just about family connections and an ethnic superiority complex and precious little to do with Christianity.

[JohnH]

There are a lot of Russian Mennonites who aren’t Holdemans.

We have people with Russian Mennonite surnames in our Western churches. I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that we exclude them. The more conservative ones, such as ourselves, do generally seem to be from outside the USA and the ones inside the USA are largely either liberal or not in the same geographical area of the Swiss/Germans.

As a general rule, Swiss Brethren-background plain Anabaptists do not include churches that have a different dominant ethnic group. (Sometimes they will include their own missions they established, but that is all.) There is usually some excuse about some kind of doctrinal problem, or that a group is inherently sinful, etc. as the reason for the exclusion.

Of course a minority of people from other backgrounds are tolerated in Swiss churches, although it is quite rare to see them ordained to ministry.

[R7ehr]

There are a lot of Russian Mennonites who aren’t Holdemans.

We have people with Russian Mennonite surnames in our Western churches. I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that we exclude them. The more conservative ones, such as ourselves, do generally seem to be from outside the USA and the ones inside the USA are largely either liberal or not in the same geographical area of the Swiss/Germans.

As a general rule, Swiss Brethren-background plain Anabaptists do not include churches that have a different dominant ethnic group. (Sometimes they will include their own missions they established, but that is all.) There is usually some excuse about some kind of doctrinal problem, or that a group is inherently sinful, etc. as the reason for the exclusion.

Of course a minority of people from other backgrounds are tolerated in Swiss churches, although it is quite rare to see them ordained to ministry.

Here’s a list of Russian/Dutch people that we have:
Dyck
Brandt
Dick
Dueck
Friesen
Janzen
Reimer
Krahn
Martens
Wadel
Theissen
Wiebe
Horning
Christner
Fehr
Penner

Interesting enough, there are a few of our congregations that have the bulk of these names. Some of these are ordained.

[ohio jones]

There were also a lot of German Baptist’s, which I don’t know their ethnic roots.

Probably German, but that's just a wild guess.

[Ernie]

Interesting enough, there are a few of our congregations that have the bulk of these names. Some of these are ordained.

And other Plain Anabaptist conferences and fellowships have congregations with similar dynamics.

[R7ehr]

Holdemans and Apostolics don't claim to publish directories of all Anabaptist churches.

Why don’t they start?

[Ernie]

It becomes painfully obvious it's really just about family connections and an ethnic superiority complex and precious little to do with Christianity.

I'll be the first to admit that many Swiss/Germans have an ethnic problem and many get concerned about things that have precious little to do with Christianity. But so do many other denominations, including Holdemans.

I agree with Soloist's wife.

I just think you are making sweeping generalizations.

Something forum members have mentioned over and over ever since you joined MD and then MN.