Video of Virginia Mennonites from 1980

[QuietlyListening]

Tried to post the link but wouldn't work

[ohio jones]

Tried to post the link but wouldn't work

Flying Canada: Fifty Years of Flying the Northland and Beyond

[Jazman]

Tried to post the link but wouldn't work

Flying Canada: Fifty Years of Flying the Northland and Beyond

Thanks!

[barnhart]

There were several comments on YouTube along the lines of “look at how much worse things have gotten since then.” I’m sure there’s some truth to that, but I was impressed at how many of the people I knew in the film remained faithful and have children and grandchildren who are at the heart of our churches here today.

I'm still thinking about this. It seems to me the perspective of the filmmaker is that the deeper values are the ones that persist as the group fractures.

This particular geographical group has a history of fervor and advance and periods of coolness and decline. It would be interesting to see what they were thinking about their history and future in the 1940's, 1840's, and 1740's.

[Ernie]

There were several comments on YouTube along the lines of “look at how much worse things have gotten since then.” I’m sure there’s some truth to that, but I was impressed at how many of the people I knew in the film remained faithful and have children and grandchildren who are at the heart of our churches here today.

I'm still thinking about this. It seems to me the perspective of the filmmaker is that the deeper values are the ones that persist as the group fractures.

Ruth asks the question whether the values can continue to be held without the cultural framework.
Assuming John Ruth is the filmmaker, here is a documentary of sorts that shows how John and his wife's values changed over time.

It seems he and they thought the cultural framework was not needed in order to preserve some key values.
I, however, concur with those who believe that many values will get lost when the cultural framework is missing.
Here are some of the values that get preserved within a thick cultural framework.
https://towardthebetter.org/wp-content/ ... imilar.pdf

[barnhart]

I wouldn't argue that point, but I am suspicious of a narrative of continuous spiritual decline that can be accurately measured by deviation from frozen practice even if the last 75 years seem that way. There are cycles of fervor over time and I'm not insightful enough to know what drives them. The good old days were not better because they were older or people wore older fashions. There were periods of spiritual deadness and numerical decline back then as well.

Some of the Steven Scot style markers used in classifying conservative mennonites are actually innovations or at least were not uniformly practiced as recent as the mid 19th century. The great great grandmothers of the Virginia conservative mennonite women who wear a head covering as regular attire only wore them to official church meetings, total avoidance of voting, alcohol, jury duty, tobacco, and four part singing were not practiced. I'm not degrading these newer practices but it's good to be careful with construction a universal narrative of decline.

[ohio jones]

There were periods of spiritual deadness and numerical decline back then as well.

Although as Stephen Nolt points out here, those periods were not always accurately represented by later historians.

[Wesleyb]

I wouldn't argue that point, but I am suspicious of a narrative of continuous spiritual decline that can be accurately measured by deviation from frozen practice even if the last 75 years seem that way. There are cycles of fervor over time and I'm not insightful enough to know what drives them. The good old days were not better because they were older or people wore older fashions. There were periods of spiritual deadness and numerical decline back then as well.

Some of the Steven Scot style markers used in classifying conservative mennonites are actually innovations or at least were not uniformly practiced as recent as the mid 19th century. The great great grandmothers of the Virginia conservative mennonite women who wear a head covering as regular attire only wore them to official church meetings, total avoidance of voting, alcohol, jury duty, tobacco, and four part singing were not practiced. I'm not degrading these newer practices but it's good to be careful with construction a universal narrative of decline.

Well said. One thing I have observed as I get older is that the "things are so bad, they surely can't get any worse, the end is near" language occurs in every generation even though the specific issues change.

I recently read the new history of Virginia Conference and it's kind of hard not to see the last chapters as an epitaph for a once great organization. All or almost all of the original churches have now left the conference. And yet I have been nourished my whole life by churches that trace their heritage back to the conference and those churches are thriving or at least holding their own today.

[ohio jones]

I recently read the new history of Virginia Conference and it's kind of hard not to see the last chapters as an epitaph for a once great organization. All or almost all of the original churches have now left the conference. And yet I have been nourished my whole life by churches that trace their heritage back to the conference and those churches are thriving or at least holding their own today.

I had the same sense when reading the history of the Indiana-Michigan Conference. In that case a few of the original congregations might remain, but the ones I've interacted with have left.

[HondurasKeiser]

I wouldn't argue that point, but I am suspicious of a narrative of continuous spiritual decline that can be accurately measured by deviation from frozen practice even if the last 75 years seem that way. There are cycles of fervor over time and I'm not insightful enough to know what drives them. The good old days were not better because they were older or people wore older fashions. There were periods of spiritual deadness and numerical decline back then as well.

Some of the Steven Scot style markers used in classifying conservative mennonites are actually innovations or at least were not uniformly practiced as recent as the mid 19th century. The great great grandmothers of the Virginia conservative mennonite women who wear a head covering as regular attire only wore them to official church meetings, total avoidance of voting, alcohol, jury duty, tobacco, and four part singing were not practiced. I'm not degrading these newer practices but it's good to be careful with construction a universal narrative of decline.

Well said. One thing I have observed as I get older is that the "things are so bad, they surely can't get any worse, the end is near" language occurs in every generation even though the specific issues change.

I recently read the new history of Virginia Conference and it's kind of hard not to see the last chapters as an epitaph for a once great organization. All or almost all of the original churches have now left the conference. And yet I have been nourished my whole life by churches that trace their heritage back to the conference and those churches are thriving or at least holding their own today.

I’m reading that book now and have a lot of thoughts. The feeling I get though, like when I read Franconia’s history is one of sadness and loss and what might have been if the conferences had gone a different direction so many decades ago.