Venezuela 2025

[ohio jones]

Leaked reports say that NIAC is the legal justification, but I think there is still no public document that says why we think we have the right to threaten Nicaragua and blow up boats with people on board. A legal justification, I mean.

Nicaragua is involved now too?

Might need a new thread for that.

[Bootstrap]

Leaked reports say that NIAC is the legal justification, but I think there is still no public document that says why we think we have the right to threaten Nicaragua and blow up boats with people on board. A legal justification, I mean.

Nicaragua is involved now too?

Might need a new thread for that.

DOH

I meant to say Venezuela, of course.

[temporal1]

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE

“Reward Offer Increase of Up to $50 Million for Information Leading to Arrest and/or Conviction of Nicolás Maduro”
PRESS STATEMENT
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE
AUGUST 7, 2025
https://www.state.gov/reward-offer-incr ... las-maduro

You don’t put out a reward poster for someone you claim is a lawful military target in an armed conflict.

i don’t put out reward posters, this admin has.

A reward poster implies a trial, due process, and all that.

The wording, “arrest and convict” more than implies.

If the conflict is justified as a non-international armed conflict (NIAC), then you cannot target the president of a country.

If/then. i’m not convinced you’re correct.

Leaked reports say that NIAC is the legal justification, but I think there is still no public document that says why we think we have the right to threaten Nicaragua and blow up boats with people on board. A legal justification, I mean.

After studying what’s going on in Nicaragua, i guessed you must be referring to something beyond Rubio’s reward statement naming Maduro.

i’ll repeat from earlier in this topic, i’ll wait for courts to address blowing up drug runners.
Evidently, some allege strong connections between Maduro and cartels.

i haven’t killed anyone. i hope i’m within bounds of human law and God’s Law.
criminals kill with regularity outside rule of human law or God’s Law;
government admins kill (perhaps) with less regularity, (we hope) within confines of human law. (God?)

God will judge all.

Considering how scriptures describe fallen nations, i wonder how the U.S. will fare wrt funding and promotion of for-profit wholesale abortion, which, to me, vastly eclipses violence accomplished by wars, military actions, death row .. will euthansia be added?

Golly. If gov funded+promoted euthanasia takes off like abortion, wow. Earth will become like Eden again?
The presumption being, the elected+elected+elected career politicians will carve out generous exemptions for themselves.

[Bootstrap]

i’ll repeat from earlier in this topic, i’ll wait for courts to address blowing up drug runners.
Evidently, some allege strong connections between Maduro and cartels.

Alleged drug runners. Lots of people who have been accused of serious crimes seem to be innocent of these crimes, grand juries are refusing even to indict some of them because the evidence is lacking, and juries are finding quite a few innocent. it's likely that at least some of these Venezuelans are also innocent of the crimes used to justify killing them. Accusations are cheap, and they sure get a lot of attention. In the modern attention economy, that's valuable.

Courts are a lot slower than drones. And a bit too late - "They were brutally murdered, but won the appeal?" Infinite patience means more extrajudicial killings.

There are credible, well-documented accusations and legal actions linking Nicolás Maduro and his circle to drug trafficking, mostly involving cocaine. But actually running a drug cartel? As a violent terrorist organization? And large amounts of fentanyl? I haven't seen any evidence of that. Maduro also successfully overturned a free and fair election - but suppose that happened in the United States, would we want Russia to come invade us and use their military to bully us?

The United States is accusing Venezuela of war-like actions. Looks like the United States is the country that is engaging in war-like actions, not Venezuela. There is no declared war, no congressional authorization, no UN authorization, no clear and imminent threat to the United States, no judicial process. This is "might makes right", pure and simple.

What happens if the government can kill anyone they accuse of a crime? Initially, Venezuelans ... have you noticed all the fascination with killing people in modern politics? All the threats? It's a different world than it used to be.

[JohnH]

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE

“Reward Offer Increase of Up to $50 Million for Information Leading to Arrest and/or Conviction of Nicolás Maduro”
PRESS STATEMENT
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE
AUGUST 7, 2025
https://www.state.gov/reward-offer-incr ... las-maduro

You don’t put out a reward poster for someone you claim is a lawful military target in an armed conflict. A reward poster implies a trial, due process, and all that.

If the conflict is justified as a non-international armed conflict (NIAC), then you cannot target the president of a country.

Leaked reports say that NIAC is the legal justification, but I think there is still no public document that says why we think we have the right to threaten Nicaragua and blow up boats with people on board. A legal justification, I mean.

Was Osama bin Laden given a fair trial?

There is no declared war, no congressional authorization, no UN authorization, no clear and imminent threat to the United States, no judicial process.

The U.S. hasn’t declared war in either of our lifetimes.

I don’t see why the UN has to authorise anything. If they do does that somehow make war okay?

[temporal1]

i’ll repeat from earlier in this topic, i’ll wait for courts to address blowing up drug runners.
Evidently, some allege strong connections between Maduro and cartels.

Alleged drug runners. Lots of people who have been accused of serious crimes seem to be innocent of these crimes, grand juries are refusing even to indict some of them because the evidence is lacking, and juries are finding quite a few innocent. it's likely that at least some of these Venezuelans are also innocent of the crimes used to justify killing them. Accusations are cheap, and they sure get a lot of attention. In the modern attention economy, that's valuable.

Courts are a lot slower than drones. And a bit too late - "They were brutally murdered, but won the appeal?" Infinite patience means more extrajudicial killings.

There are credible, well-documented accusations and legal actions linking Nicolás Maduro and his circle to drug trafficking, mostly involving cocaine. But actually running a drug cartel? As a violent terrorist organization? And large amounts of fentanyl? I haven't seen any evidence of that. Maduro also successfully overturned a free and fair election - but suppose that happened in the United States, would we want Russia to come invade us and use their military to bully us?

The United States is accusing Venezuela of war-like actions. Looks like the United States is the country that is engaging in war-like actions, not Venezuela. There is no declared war, no congressional authorization, no UN authorization, no clear and imminent threat to the United States, no judicial process. This is "might makes right", pure and simple.

What happens if the government can kill anyone they accuse of a crime? Initially, Venezuelans ... have you noticed all the fascination with killing people in modern politics? All the threats? It's a different world than it used to be.

i don’t believe you are an emotional teenage girl. this reads like something i would have written in the 1960’s.

JH:
Was Osama bin Laden given a fair trial?

obama was proud.

[Szdfan]

Two questions:

1. Is the US going to war?
2. At what point did the US own Venezuelan oil fields?

[ken_sylvania]

Two questions:

1. Is the US going to war?
2. At what point did the US own Venezuelan oil fields?

Wow. Just Wow.

[temporal1]

Two questions:
1. Is the US going to war?
2. At what point did the US own Venezuelan oil fields?
https://

Thank you for asking questions rather than jumping to conclusions.
i imagine there are few without questions.

[barnhart]

Sometimes I feel like quite alien to the values on display in the US. I was surprised at the defense of the Russians violently expanding over the rights and space of their neighbors and now I am genuinely surprised at the defense of the US doing similar things over its neighbors. This is increasingly becoming a foreign national culture to me. What catches me off guard the most is response of Christians who don't seem to notice or are acclimated to it.

"I am a stranger here within a foreign land, my home is far away along the golden strand. Ambassador to be from realms beyond the sea, I'm here on business for my king..."

Against this administration's expansionist war policies I raise the example of Origen, the early church father from the 2nd century who responded to the charge of the church failing to support the war aims of the empire.

We who by our prayers destroy all demons which stir up wars, violate oaths, and disturb the peace are of more help to the emperors than those who seem to be doing the fighting.