Venezuela 2025

[ohio jones]

I think it comes down to this — If the state can kill whoever it wants while refusing to name what it is doing, then the state has escaped moral and legal constraint. I don’t think that’s a recipe for a better world.

The voters have elected a Congress and Presidents (Bush, Obama, Trump) to do exactly that.

If you are implying that Biden was morally or legally superior to the others, I'm sure we will hear from Grace shortly.

[JohnH]

Democracies have laws, guardrails and built-in accountability that don’t get swept away by whoever won the election.

It’s autocracies and dictatorships that kill whoever they want with impunity.

Right, and this democracy passed a bunch of “anti-terrorism” laws.

[JohnH]

I think it comes down to this — If the state can kill whoever it wants while refusing to name what it is doing, then the state has escaped moral and legal constraint. I don’t think that’s a recipe for a better world.

The voters have elected a Congress and Presidents (Bush, Obama, Trump) to do exactly that.

If you are implying that Biden was morally or legally superior to the others, I'm sure we will hear from Grace shortly.

I can’t think off the top of my head of him doing things like Leon Panetta’s “double tap” strikes (do a strike, wait for rescue crews to show up, then strike all of them) or Obama’s assassinations on US citizens designated as “terrorists”.

[temporal1]

I think it comes down to this — If the state can kill whoever it wants while refusing to name what it is doing, then the state has escaped moral and legal constraint. I don’t think that’s a recipe for a better world.

The voters have elected a Congress and Presidents (Bush, Obama, Trump) to do exactly that.

If you want to change that, you’ll have to do something to end democracy, and instead of some kind of absolute monarch who lives up to whatever your moral expectations are. Overall, people seem to really want a powerful government that goes and kills terrorists, drug dealers and so on

and don’t want to hear about due process or “rights” for them.

i think this is correct, except i’m pretty sure U.S. citizens overall appreciate and want due process. due process takes time.
It’s inconvenient to the instant gratification mentality, but due process takes time. it can’t be done before an action has been taken.

[JohnH]

i think this is correct, except i’m pretty sure U.S. citizens overall appreciate and want due process. due process takes time.
It’s inconvenient to the instant gratification mentality, but due process takes time. it can’t be done before an action has been taken.

US citizens who vote apparently don’t want to elect a Congress or President that will institute all kinds of “due process” for terrorists abroad.

[temporal1]

Democracies have laws, guardrails and built-in accountability that don’t get swept away by whoever won the election.

It’s autocracies and dictatorships that kill whoever they want with impunity.

Right, and this democracy passed a bunch of “anti-terrorism” laws.

yes. and. numbers of people questioned the entire notion of DHS before it began, as response to 9-11-2001.
once established, it is bound to be tested in courts, over and over and over.

frankly, i believe biden+mayorkas made a mockery of it, turning DHS into DHI, the Dept of Homeland INsecurity.
i hope they’re held accountable. i hold them more accountable than the millions of pawns affected.

[Valerie]

I think it comes down to this — If the state can kill whoever it wants while refusing to name what it is doing, then the state has escaped moral and legal constraint. I don’t think that’s a recipe for a better world.

The voters have elected a Congress and Presidents (Bush, Obama, Trump) to do exactly that.

If you want to change that, you’ll have to do something to end democracy, and instead of some kind of absolute monarch who lives up to whatever your moral expectations are. Overall, people seem to really want a powerful government that goes and kills terrorists, drug dealers and so on and don’t want to hear about due process or “rights” for them.

Democracies have laws, guardrails and built-in accountability that don’t get swept away by whoever won the election.

It’s autocracies and dictatorships that kill whoever they want with impunity.

It’s war- it’s war on drug trafficking. Self defense.
Don’t worry, as much as they’ve tried to impeach & imprison & assassinate Trump, you can trust this will be no exception (if you are right in your perspective) but this is not your area of expertise it seems, just another reason to say we should have elected Biden (whoops, Harris) the world would be much better & safer.

[Szdfan]

Democracies have laws, guardrails and built-in accountability that don’t get swept away by whoever won the election.

It’s autocracies and dictatorships that kill whoever they want with impunity.

Right, and this democracy passed a bunch of “anti-terrorism” laws.

Which specific anti-terrorism statute are you referring to here?

Which statute authorizes killing unidentified people, outside a declared war zone, without arrest, trial, or judicial process? And what are the conditions it requires to be met?

[temporal1]

i think this is correct, except i’m pretty sure U.S. citizens overall appreciate and want due process. due process takes time.
It’s inconvenient to the instant gratification mentality, but due process takes time. it can’t be done before an action has been taken.

US citizens who vote apparently don’t want to elect a Congress or President that will institute all kinds of “due process” for terrorists abroad.

agreed. i meant due process for the president, and implicated U.S. officials.

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i realize some believe full U.S. due process “should” apply to all illegals and non-citizens. i’m not sure.
that doesn’t seem at all logical. esp not for illegals. how much? what circumstances? what about their home country’s laws?

i often frame it (to myself) asking, what would i do? what would i expect? (if i broke these various laws.)

not breaking laws remains the best prevention.

[JohnH]

The general norm in Latin America is that whenever the current party in power changes, they press charges against the last group that was in power and try to put them in prison (or worse). There are some who seem to think we should do that in America, too.