Places to invest, other than in stocks...

[Praxis+Theodicy]

And "consistency is the key to the Christian life"? I am working to get "consistency" out of my vocabulary. It is worn out to me.

Well the key to that would be consistency in speech! Lol, just kidding. Do you have any good alternatives since you've over-used that word?

[Southerner]

And "consistency is the key to the Christian life"? I am working to get "consistency" out of my vocabulary. It is worn out to me.

Well the key to that would be consistency in speech! Lol, just kidding. Do you have any good alternatives since you've over-used that word?

Still thinking about alternatives!

[Ernie]

If I think of the time it takes to analyze in detail how exactly invested money is being used, I wonder if we are really chasing something that is worth our while. I think of some people who were highly concerned about this kind of thing, and feel like they were straining at gnats while swallowing camels.

I don't know what you are referring to but there are organizations that do the detail anyhow because of their own convictions and because that is what their business is. So anybody who does care how their money is used, and doesn't want to do their own analyzing, they can just go with these organizations.

I don't have a problem with taking the position that charging interest is wrong, but I can't make sense of that unless you are also against borrowing money at interest. I benefit both from interest-free loans and loans made at market rates of interest. Bank loans make it possible to do business and take advantage of opportunities, and save a person from much higher costs of renting assets such as buildings, vehicles, and equipment. If it's wrong to charge interest, then it should also be wrong to make a profit by renting out property or vehicles, because that is often much more profitable than simply loaning out money at interest. In fact, rental rates (for example, rent-to-own storage sheds) are often so high as to be downright predatory.

Yes, I think there is a lot of inconsistency with these things.
The Jews had figured out a way to keep the law without taking care of their parents. Unregenerated people will figure out a way to game the system.

If Jesus came to earth today, I'm not sure he would address charging interest (he didn't address that the first time he came).
I think he would address landlords charging poor people rent amounts that they can barely afford. Taking expensive vacations while others in the church struggle to pay bills, etc. He did talk about similar sorts of things the first time he came.

[mike]

If I think of the time it takes to analyze in detail how exactly invested money is being used, I wonder if we are really chasing something that is worth our while. I think of some people who were highly concerned about this kind of thing, and feel like they were straining at gnats while swallowing camels.

I don't know what you are referring to but there are organizations that do the detail anyhow because of their own convictions and because that is what their business is. So anybody who does care how their money is used, and doesn't want to do their own analyzing, they can just go with these organizations.

I'm referring to a man I knew of a few years ago (you would know of him as well) who required a prospective suitor for his daughter to detail exactly the kinds of companies he would invest in before he would permit him to date his daughter. If he had paid more attention to other, more important things in his life and family, it would maybe have gone better for them all in the end.

The point I would make is that instead of spending so much time and effort trying to get the most possible return for their money while parsing the ethical details of all the possible investments, one could just put their money in an average savings or CD account in a bank, or find a local investment broker and let them manage the funds. I realize this may sound like someone who doesn't care about being a careful steward of money. But I have always been too busy with other things to think a whole lot about investing money, and of course it helps when you don't have a lot of liquid assets to play around with anyway.

[mike]

I don't have a problem with taking the position that charging interest is wrong, but I can't make sense of that unless you are also against borrowing money at interest. I benefit both from interest-free loans and loans made at market rates of interest. Bank loans make it possible to do business and take advantage of opportunities, and save a person from much higher costs of renting assets such as buildings, vehicles, and equipment.

Same answer I give to Christians who don't believe in nonresistance. I benefit from the actions of the US military and local police force, yet I refuse to participate in such occupations.

Christian philosophers throughout the centuries have been responding to this same question. Aquinas has a robust argument for why the victim of usury is not sinning even though the usurer is. The first is a victim, the second is exploiting someone in need. The first is prey, the second a predator. It is easy to see how God condemns the perpetrator of a crime yet not the victim.

If it's wrong to charge interest, then it should also be wrong to make a profit by renting out property or vehicles, because that is often much more profitable than simply loaning out money at interest. In fact, rental rates (for example, rent-to-own storage sheds) are often so high as to be downright predatory.

I completely 100% agree. I myself refuse to engage in renting any property, whether it be money, food, house, land, tractor, you name it. "Do not lend at a profit, not money, nor food, nor anything that can be put up for usury." Consistency is the key to the Christian life. Finding loopholes is possible with the law, but not for followers of Jesus. Instead of renting out my excess property, my practice is to "lend without expecting anything in return."

I respect your position.

[JohnH]

I completely 100% agree. I myself refuse to engage in renting any property, whether it be money, food, house, land, tractor, you name it.

Someone I know was trying to purchase a house but was self-employed and had trouble getting the paperwork together to get a mortgage. So I bought it instead and rent it to her for the mortgage payment, which I took out in my own name.

I have a hard time seeing how this is wrong or immoral.

"Do not lend at a profit, not money, nor food, nor anything that can be put up for usury." Consistency is the key to the Christian life. Finding loopholes is possible with the law, but not for followers of Jesus. Instead of renting out my excess property, my practice is to "lend without expecting anything in return."

I have a customer who uses a computer service from us (actually, several do). The service is "leased" on one of our servers. For example, they pay $20 a month and use a certain percentage of the computing resources each month. The customer expects us to make a profit, or else we will go out of business and can't provide him what he needs anymore.

Would you consider this wrong to do?

[JohnH]

You are much better off never borrowing money.

A close friend and I have practically vowed to each other not to ever go in debt.

And considering how expensive rent is relative to income these days, it's about impossible to save up enough money to buy a house cash.

My wife and I would love to live in a house... currently live in a shed.

Perhaps getting a mortgage to buy a house would be a good idea, then?

[Ernie]

If I think of the time it takes to analyze in detail how exactly invested money is being used, I wonder if we are really chasing something that is worth our while. I think of some people who were highly concerned about this kind of thing, and feel like they were straining at gnats while swallowing camels.

I don't know what you are referring to but there are organizations that do the detail anyhow because of their own convictions and because that is what their business is. So anybody who does care how their money is used, and doesn't want to do their own analyzing, they can just go with these organizations.

I'm referring to a man I knew of a few years ago (you would know of him as well) who required a prospective suitor for his daughter to detail exactly the kinds of companies he would invest in before he would permit him to date his daughter. If he had paid more attention to other, more important things in his life and family, it would maybe have gone better for them all in the end.

The point I would make is that instead of spending so much time and effort trying to get the most possible return for their money while parsing the ethical details of all the possible investments, one could just put their money in an average savings or CD account in a bank, or find a local investment broker and let them manage the funds. I realize this may sound like someone who doesn't care about being a careful steward of money. But I have always been too busy with other things to think a whole lot about investing money, and of course it helps when you don't have a lot of liquid assets to play around with anyway.

Ok. Point made. Mike suggests a CD at the bank or a local investment broker.
These along with investing in stocks are what most people default to.

I was hoping that in this thread we could get creative about places to invest that will build up the kingdom of God.

[JohnH]

I should note that if the local investment broker is Edward Jones, it's one of the worst places to invest your money or to set up retirement plans for employees.

[Southerner]

I should note that if the local investment broker is Edward Jones, it's one of the worst places to invest your money or to set up retirement plans for employees.

How so?