Places to invest, other than in stocks...

[Neto]

Before we moved back from Brazil and settled permanently in Ohio, I had funds invested in an MB fund, what they called the Mennonite Brethren Trustee Fund. There are no MB congregations in Ohio, so they are not registered or licensed here. So when I changed my address form Oklahoma to Ohio they told me I needed to close the account.

There were several things I really liked about the way they ran the fund, and what they used the funds for. Because the executors of the fund were basically doing it as a service, they received only basic pay for their work. This allowed the fund to pay the 'investors' above the bank rates, and they could still make loans for less than what the bank required. The funds were loaned at a lower rate to new congregations, MB ministries that needed funds for a special project, church building projects, etc. Individuals could not borrow money from this fund, and certainly not for business ventures - everything went for ministry work.

I have searched for something like that here in Ohio, but so far there doesn't seem to be any such thing here (in the plain groups, anyway). I requested an information packet from AF years ago, but there were basically two reasons I decided not to invest there. One, the money is not used for ministry or mission work. Two, I knew a businessman who was on the board (the local board, at least), and I attended an AF business seminar where he spoke, and he had an extremely uncharitable attitude toward employees. I also did some work for the company he owned, and there were things there that I found less than impressive.

Commercial stock companies can easily be swayed by the public swings in opinion on many moral issues, as well as investing in Government bonds, or direct military stock-piling companies (munitions).

In the context of what banks offer, a Certificate of Deposit (CD) garners the best interest/dividend rates. Second is a Money market, that at least does better at compensating for inflation than does an interest-bearing checking account. The other option for some banks, is to invest in bank stocks. (We have stocks in our local bank group, but they have gotten so big now that it no longer has the "community bank" feel it used to have. They are opening more branches outside of the conservative communities, and I think that they may be forced to realize that the low loan failure rate they are experiencing now is NOT all due to the expertise of their fund managers - I think they fail to adequately credit the community they are doing business in, which, I think, deserves a good chunk of the credit for the stable returns on loans. An example of how it used to be is that if you slipped up and over-drew your checking account, they would not just bounce your check or charge you a hefty fee to cover it. They used to call you, and say, "Hey, we have a check here that doesn't have funds to back it up. Why don't you drop in and deposit or move some funds out of another account to cover this." Not anymore. Not for a long time.

[Ernie]

Before we moved back from Brazil and settled permanently in Ohio, I had funds invested in an MB fund, what they called the Mennonite Brethren Trustee Fund. There are no MB congregations in Ohio, so they are not registered or licensed here. So when I changed my address form Oklahoma to Ohio they told me I needed to close the account.

There were several things I really liked about the way they ran the fund, and what they used the funds for. Because the executors of the fund were basically doing it as a service, they received only basic pay for their work. This allowed the fund to pay the 'investors' above the bank rates, and they could still make loans for less than what the bank required. The funds were loaned at a lower rate to new congregations, MB ministries that needed funds for a special project, church building projects, etc. Individuals could not borrow money from this fund, and certainly not for business ventures - everything went for ministry work.

I really like this.

[Southerner]

One place that Plain Anabaptists can invest is with Anabaptist Financial. I'm mostly on board with the places they invest money, with the exception of growing tobacco. I don't understand why that loophole was allowed when AF began and as far as I know, continues to be a place where some funds are invested. I would be glad to know if it is otherwise. My guess is that AF didn't want to alienate too many Amish, but it just seems strange to me.

You’re much better off loaning from a bank.

You are much better off never borrowing money.

A close friend and I have practically vowed to each other not to ever go in debt.

[Neto]

Some investment advisors often suggest investing in land. Unfortunately those who are very able to do this buy up all available land in a given area, land 'values' shoot up out of the possible range for young families, and then it's Isaiah 5:8 for them - "alone in the land". Businesses cannot find employees nearby, because they've forced them to move away. How can young families manage to own their own homes without borrowing from someplace? Not every parent has the funds to set up all of their children with a homestead. (Is it "the 1%"?)

Where to go?
For English: Belize or Guyana. There is currently an effort by some Plautdietsch people to buy large plots of land in Surinam (official language: Dutch).

Of course there is also fairly reasonably priced land in US states like Arkansas and Missouri, at least last I heard (a long time ago...). RagPicker moved back down there.

[mike]

In the context of what banks offer, a Certificate of Deposit (CD) garners the best interest/dividend rates. Second is a Money market, that at least does better at compensating for inflation than does an interest-bearing checking account.

This is how I encourage my children to hold their money.

When it comes to other forms of investing such as mutual funds, I wonder how important it is for Christians to get into the weeds of what the money is being used for. If you care so much about the morality or ethics of specific stocks that an investment fund contains, why wouldn't you go out and pick the stocks yourself, or just loan your money directly to someone that can use it and who agrees with your worldview. Why use an investment bank at all that takes some of the returns as fees?

Anywhere you might invest is going to have a variety of items that you may not agree with, including your local bank who lends money to businesses such as bars and what not. If I were going to invest in the stock market, I think I would just pick mutual funds with a mainstream investment bank and look at the track record of earnings and growth and not worry too much about the details. For a year or two I had a small amount of money invested in mutual funds with Thrivent, and I remember the rep going over their ethical guidelines for the companies that they invested in. I mean it all sounded nice, but I am sure if I went through the actual companies I would find plenty that I wouldn't necessarily share common goals with.

Now when it comes down to picking individual stocks, there I find some real issues with how some people invest. I hear that there are members of conservative Mennonite churches including my own where members pick stocks such as military contractors/military equipment manufacturers to invest in because of their great returns. That doesn't make sense to me.

[JohnH]

You are much better off never borrowing money.

A close friend and I have practically vowed to each other not to ever go in debt.

And considering how expensive rent is relative to income these days, it's about impossible to save up enough money to buy a house cash.

[JohnH]

In the context of what banks offer, a Certificate of Deposit (CD) garners the best interest/dividend rates. Second is a Money market, that at least does better at compensating for inflation than does an interest-bearing checking account.

This is how I encourage my children to hold their money.

When it comes to other forms of investing such as mutual funds, I wonder how important it is for Christians to get into the weeds of what the money is being used for. If you care so much about the morality or ethics of specific stocks that an investment fund contains, why wouldn't you go out and pick the stocks yourself, or just loan your money directly to someone that can use it and who agrees with your worldview. Why use an investment bank at all that takes some of the returns as fees?

And here's a little surprise: money invested in banks (particularly that returns interest) is also invested in various things. That might be an argument to stop "investing" our money into things we find morally abhorrent, though.

Many Mennonites and other conservative Christians complain a lot about the things the government spends money on, and also complain about government deficit spending / government indebtedness. Yet money in a bank is used to directly "invest" in government debt. If someone doesn't believe the government should be going into debt, then they shouldn't lending their money to the government, even if a bank is an intermediary.

[ohio jones]

When it comes to other forms of investing such as mutual funds, I wonder how important it is for Christians to get into the weeds of what the money is being used for. If you care so much about the morality or ethics of specific stocks that an investment fund contains, why wouldn't you go out and pick the stocks yourself, or just loan your money directly to someone that can use it and who agrees with your worldview. Why use an investment bank at all that takes some of the returns as fees?

For those who do care, but don't want to get into the weeds (or would rather use their time posting here), there are options such as Everence and Eventide that come a little closer to aligning with my values, although perhaps not perfectly. But at least they wouldn't be investing in military companies whereas that could be a concern with a Lutheran fund that might have other ethical filters.

[Praxis+Theodicy]

Investments, interest, usury, "making money with money," passive income, "gain upon gain"... it's gone by many different names over the centuries, and for all of time, all the wisest philosophers and religious authorities have said the same thing. It is an evil practice that ought to be condemned and outlawed. The Roman philosopher/historian Cato the elder was asked "What you do think of interest?" His answer was "You might as well ask me what I think about murder."

Every major religion has condemned interest/investments/usury as sinful (or whatever the religion's version of "sin" is). The Israelites called it "neshek". Latin Christians called it "usury." Muslims call it "riba". Budhists called it "gain upon gain." The common factor was that they all viewed it as an abomination in the eyes of God.

When Nehemiah returned to Jerusalem to rebuild the wall, he found that the infrastructure of the city was crumbling, but even worse, the moral fiber of God's people had eroded. They were lending at interest (and only 1% interest at that)!

So I continued, “What you are doing is not right. Shouldn’t you walk in the fear of our God to avoid the reproach of our Gentile enemies? I and my brothers and my men are also lending the people money and grain. But let us stop charging interest! Give back to them immediately their fields, vineyards, olive groves and houses, and also the interest you are charging them—one percent of the money, grain, new wine and olive oil.”

God expresses his hatred for charging interest in the law (Exodus 22, Leviticus 25, Deuteronomy 23), in wisdom (Proverbs 28), in poetry (Psalm 15), in history (Nehemiah 5), through His prophets (Ezekiel 18, 22), in the Gospel (Luke 6).

For 1300-1400 years of our history, investment/usury/interest was outlawed as a matter of fact in the church and (during the height of Christendom in the Holy Roman Empire) in secular law. It has only been the past 600-700 years, with the rise of capitalism, that the church has begun changing its mind on usury (though God's mind remains unchanged). Nothing has changed about the nature of usury. It's just something the culture of the world began to accept during the enlightenment, as "investing" fueled the mercantile empires of colonialism, and colonialism was THE thing that helped empires grow. Though the holy scriptures did not change, the culture outside the church dd. And eventually, Christians began to acculturate more and more, to the point where charging interest was no longer seen as sinful. Where investing money to get more money was just a normal activity, instead of something God warns his people to avoid.

If this conversation were presented to Christians just 700 years ago, they would have look appalled and assumed that the spirit of Babylon had taken over the world in our time, and that the church cared more about fitting into the Babylonian spirit and culture than it did about being a beacon of the Kingdom of God.

[Ernie]

When it comes to other forms of investing such as mutual funds, I wonder how important it is for Christians to get into the weeds of what the money is being used for.

I think it is important because we are to be good stewards of the resources God has entrusted to us.

If you care so much about the morality or ethics of specific stocks that an investment fund contains, why wouldn't you go out and pick the stocks yourself, or just loan your money directly to someone that can use it and who agrees with your worldview. Why use an investment bank at all that takes some of the returns as fees?

That is what the OP is about and what I have been posting about since. I've given the answers to these questions.