Venezuela 2025

[Szdfan]

So war crimes don’t matter because heaven will sort it out? Why have laws and courts at all then if eternal judgment is the only place where justice happens?

The most heinous of crimes is the slaughter of little babies that happens every day, and laws and courts do nothing - except protect t those who are doing the slaughtering.

If you are looking for right and wrong, man’s laws and man’s courts are the wrong place to look. You will find courts that take the impoverished to trial for a debt of a few thousand dollars, snatching it right out of their paychecks - when billionaires who defraud literally billions - such as Ohio’s own Vivek Ramaswamy seem to be able to get away with anything.

Hence I have more confidence in a heavenly kingdom than in these earthly ones. And yes, I find it a bit suspect when there is a great deal of concern about the lives of suspected terrorists and drug traffickers paired with no concern at all for innocent babies.

We’re not talking about abortion.

Why can’t you answer the question about whether it’s morally wrong to kill incapacitated survivors clinging to the remains of a destroyed boat and unable to fight back?

[temporal1]

So war crimes don’t matter because heaven will sort it out? Why have laws and courts at all then if eternal judgment is the only place where justice happens?

your presumptions and conclusions escape me.

Fair enough. Let me ask it plainly, without presuming anything:

Do you believe it is morally wrong to kill incapacitated survivors clinging to the remains of a destroyed boat? Yes or no?

That’s the question I’m asking.

^^i don’t believe in killing, not by any measure morality, not by faith in Jesus Christ.
i think i’ve been consistent in that for 50+years.

Plaintiffs can be as wrong as, or as evil as, or worse than, defendents.
Courts of human law aren’t always perfect or just. They are what we have on earth. Not all on earth have equal courts or equal systems.

God has sovereign justice that is inescapable.

Epistemological fog.

^^Christianity 101

Jesus lived on earth as man.
Was He treated justly in human courts of law? Who did He seek? Who did He cry out for? (His attorney? Caesar?)
i believe He perfectly modeled for His how to navigate this harsh violent world. i believe He knew best.

Jesus Christ who is God, cried out for His Father. Every time. Isn’t that interesting? i find it transformative.

[temporal1]

Young children.

i believe even healthy, well-adjusted young children have an inborn sense of the sanctity of life, human and animal.
It seems ignored presently, but, in the past, this reality was recognized in psychiatry, they noted, children who abuse younger children and/or animals, may have signs of psychopathy. Serious stuff.

Today, there are children’s books teaching them that abortion is a good thing!
No lessons about millstones.

The level of depravity that results from isolated human reasoning is horrifying.
Scriptures warn, human reasoning is not enough.

Mother Theresa got it right. (To paraphrase)
A society that allows killing of the innocent unborn has no moral boundaries.

[Soloist]

It is morally wrong to kill people.

Babies in the womb, women and children, men clinging to wreckage, men accused of smuggling drugs, men smuggling drugs...

Does the Government have the right to wield the sword? yes. Does that make them moral no.


I judge countries based on what they claim to believe and follow, not my morality.

[ohio jones]

So war crimes don’t matter because heaven will sort it out? Why have laws and courts at all then if eternal judgment is the only place where justice happens?

The most heinous of crimes is the slaughter of little babies that happens every day, and laws and courts do nothing - except protect t those who are doing the slaughtering.

If you are looking for right and wrong, man’s laws and man’s courts are the wrong place to look. You will find courts that take the impoverished to trial for a debt of a few thousand dollars, snatching it right out of their paychecks - when billionaires who defraud literally billions - such as Ohio’s own Vivek Ramaswamy seem to be able to get away with anything.

Hence I have more confidence in a heavenly kingdom than in these earthly ones. And yes, I find it a bit suspect when there is a great deal of concern about the lives of suspected terrorists and drug traffickers paired with no concern at all for innocent babies.

This looks like one of those false binaries t1 has been inveighing against recently. Multiple forms of killing can be wrong simultaneously.

[barnhart]

Don't be unreasonable! that would never happen in this great country of ethics and morals.

I think this is a reasonable analogy considering actual history. A good slice of the persecution of Anabaptists was due to their failure to support the church states in their struggle against Islamic invasion. (I see your irony Soloist).

Just above, P.6, there is admission of not even knowing what the label “terrorism” entails.
Wallowing in speculative fear isn’t something i notice Jesus promoting. He loves the little children, tho. Fear not.

Are you sure you understand how analogies work? I don't see anything fearful in noticing this parallel, rather it should serve as a warning to the wise.

[temporal1]

I think this is a reasonable analogy considering actual history. A good slice of the persecution of Anabaptists was due to their failure to support the church states in their struggle against Islamic invasion. (I see your irony Soloist).

Just above, P.6, there is admission of not even knowing what the label “terrorism” entails.
Wallowing in speculative fear isn’t something i notice Jesus promoting. He loves the little children, tho. Fear not.

Are you sure you understand how analogies work? I don't see anything fearful in noticing this parallel, rather it should serve as a warning to the wise.

i think it’s often a matter of degrees, tone and tenor. interpretation.
heaven knows, i’m frequently surprised how something i wrote doesn’t land at all as intended. i try to understand and clarify.

[temporal1]

First stop: Congress

AP / White House says admiral ordered follow-up strike on alleged drug boat, insists attack was lawful
https://apnews.com/article/trump-venezu ... 2699e78228

.. Congress wants answers
Senate Majority Leader John Thune on Monday broadly defended the operations, echoing the Trump administration position that they’re necessary to stem the flow of illegal narcotics into the United States.

Thune said the committees in Congress will conduct oversight looking into what happened.
“I don’t think you want to draw any conclusions or deductions until you have all the facts,” he said of the Sept. 2 strike.
“We’ll see where they lead.” ..

i’m not in favor of any killing, no matter party or administration.
there has been too much in my lifetime. i can’t comprehend it.

i’m also not in favor of drug and human trafficking. crimes and sins. enablers are complicit and should be held accountable.
i don’t begin to know how to respond to it on any government level, local or international.
it’s caused untold damage.

i pray for ALL in leadership to be led on right paths in their heavy responsibilities.

[JohnH]

Is it morally wrong to blow up a boat suspected to be using to traffick drugs?

That’s a different question. I’m happy to discuss it, but I’d like you to answer the one I asked first.

Is it morally wrong to kill incapacitated survivors who are clinging to the remains of a destroyed boat and unable to fight back? Yes or no?

I fail to see a difference between either.

[Bootstrap]

Suppose we start with this: Killing is really bad. God has given the sword to Caesar, but God also judges Caesar for how he uses the sword. If Caesar murders you or my wife or my neighbor or a citizen of another country, that matters. We are all created in God's image.

Traditional American democracy is built on the belief that no one person can be trusted with unchecked power. That’s why we have checks and balances, not because leaders are angels, but because they are human. Power is safer when it must be shared, persuaded, and constrained. And for that to work, there has to be a moral and legal foundation guiding how force is used.

Over the weekend, members of the House and Senate Armed Services Committees are saying they need to look into this. Including enough Republicans that it seems reasonably likely to happen. I think that would be good, does anyone disagree? e? Anything that prevents blatant, unnecessary killing is good. If a Congressional investigation accomplishes that, it’s just as worthwhile as improving a police department in any American city. Saving lives is good.

Caesar will never have the same moral code that Jesus taught. Just won't happen. But a Caesar with no moral code at all, a Caesar who kills wantonly and uses fear to force submission ... that's a terrible thing for many people. If we shake our heads and say, "oh well, we never expected Caesar to be Jesus" or justify every behavior by finding some time in history that some Caesar did something horrible, it's a race to the bottom. If our standards change whenever a new Caesar is elected, they are no standards at all.

I understand those who say that speaking truth to Caesar is not our job, but that's precisely what prophets do. Because prophets do not speak only to the righteous. If we encourage everyone to just look the other way, we are telling Caesar he can do whatever he wants. Because Caesar will stretch the boundaries and get away with whatever he can. No matter the consequences for the victims.