Venezuela 2025

[barnhart]

Recently 15+ people were arrested (Americans) for 14 pounds of Fentanyl. Should we deny them legal rights because they are drug cartel? Should they be charged as terrorists and locked in Cuba?
Should they be shot on sight? ...

How a society treats outsiders will set the pattern for the way they will treat internal dissent. We, as a society, are choosing the treatment of our grandchildren.

[JohnH]

Recently 15+ people were arrested (Americans) for 14 pounds of Fentanyl. Should we deny them legal rights because they are drug cartel? Should they be charged as terrorists and locked in Cuba?
Should they be shot on sight? ...

How a society treats outsiders will set the pattern for the way they will treat internal dissent. We, as a society, are choosing the treatment of our grandchildren.

… our grandchildren are running drug boats from Colombia and Venezuela?

[Southerner]

Recently 15+ people were arrested (Americans) for 14 pounds of Fentanyl. Should we deny them legal rights because they are drug cartel? Should they be charged as terrorists and locked in Cuba?
Should they be shot on sight? ...

How a society treats outsiders will set the pattern for the way they will treat internal dissent. We, as a society, are choosing the treatment of our grandchildren.

… our grandchildren are running drug boats from Colombia and Venezuela?

Fishing boats.

[temporal1]

i perceive the drug cartels are extremely bad and are doing untold damage in the U.S.
Also, from reports all my life, they are thoroughly unscrupulous and kill with impunity at will.
i don’t see it as an “undeveloped country” problem - like i did for much of my life.
i believe they are all mixed up in the U.S., from “the streets” to Wall Street and Congress.

So. i’m waiting to judge. For sure, they will exploit U.S. courts to the max. They are or have well educated representatives, in and out of prison. “Business” doesn’t stop due to being behind bars.

Recently 15+ people were arrested (Americans) for 14 pounds of Fentanyl. Should we deny them legal rights because they are drug cartel? Should they be charged as terrorists and locked in Cuba?
Should they be shot on sight?

What if they weren't Americans, does that make it okay?

How do you know these people are guilty by choice? how do you know these people deserve to be shot? As a Christian, I'd not shoot any of them. But if I'm approaching this as a secular position, I would want them to have the same rights I do both because it could easily be me if the tides turn, and also because I believe in treating people according to our laws otherwise... why do we even have laws?
We have our own laws on sea going vessels, we didn't sign the international ones. Does this mean our laws only apply to Americans? does this mean we can on the word of an intel officer (who got us into Iraq for WMD's that didn't exist) that these people are worthy to shoot on sight against our own laws?

i appreciate all this, and want to thoughtfully reply.

Regarding some other statements above about WMD in Iraq, that’s been discussed and grieved on forum over years.
Governments make mistakes and do evil things for evil reasons. Churches do, too.

That doesn’t mean governments+churches should be castrated or ended. Some think so. Scriptures do not.

Cartels, drug trafficking, sins, crimes, abuses, are well known over decades IN the U.S., it’s not speculation.
Most administrations prefer to ignore, it’s just too hard. Election cycles come+go, politicians just want to ride it out.

i admire anyone willing to attempt to rein in abject evil. governments+churches have responsibilities.

i plan to return to these important questions.
maybe tonight.

[JohnH]

How a society treats outsiders will set the pattern for the way they will treat internal dissent. We, as a society, are choosing the treatment of our grandchildren.

… our grandchildren are running drug boats from Colombia and Venezuela?

Fishing boats.

Is anybody actually claiming they're "fishing boats" anymore?

Most fishermen don't go hundreds of miles away from their port on a route suspiciously close to the U.S. On the other hand, drug traffickers certainly do.

At some point, one also has to trust the government to just do its job. I seem to recall many people telling us to do that back during COVID, when the government wouldn't let us visit elderly relatives, assemble for church, or go to our jobs. "Trust the government." Perhaps now is also a good time to "trust the government" as it does its best to rid us of the plague of highly addictive drugs.

[temporal1]

Watch. Be alert and prayerful. Don’t castrate as a knee-jerk general policy. God has His time, His nuances.

[ken_sylvania]

"Smuggling drugs into other countries". How do you know that this is happening?

I don’t know everything in the world firsthand for sure. The newspapers who reported on the drug boats all affirmed they were indeed smuggling drugs, though. The question at hand is whether it’s okay to simply attack the vessels versus some kind of police action.

Yes, the newspapers who reported on the drug boats all affirmed that they were indeed smuggling drugs. What a slick way of saying that a boat carrying drugs is a drug boat.

Now, how about the [not drug] boats that got blown out of the water by the US anyway? The newspapers that reported on those boats affirm that those boats almost certainly were not smuggling drugs.

[ken_sylvania]

i perceive the drug cartels are extremely bad and are doing untold damage in the U.S.
Also, from reports all my life, they are thoroughly unscrupulous and kill with impunity at will.
i don’t see it as an “undeveloped country” problem - like i did for much of my life.
i believe they are all mixed up in the U.S., from “the streets” to Wall Street and Congress.

So. i’m waiting to judge. For sure, they will exploit U.S. courts to the max. They are or have well educated representatives, in and out of prison. “Business” doesn’t stop due to being behind bars.

Recently 15+ people were arrested (Americans) for 14 pounds of Fentanyl. Should we deny them legal rights because they are drug cartel? Should they be charged as terrorists and locked in Cuba?
Should they be shot on sight?

What if they weren't Americans, does that make it okay?

How do you know these people are guilty by choice? how do you know these people deserve to be shot? As a Christian, I'd not shoot any of them. But if I'm approaching this as a secular position, I would want them to have the same rights I do both because it could easily be me if the tides turn, and also because I believe in treating people according to our laws otherwise... why do we even have laws?
We have our own laws on sea going vessels, we didn't sign the international ones. Does this mean our laws only apply to Americans? does this mean we can on the word of an intel officer (who got us into Iraq for WMD's that didn't exist) that these people are worthy to shoot on sight against our own laws?

To answer your question, nations which decide they are at war with a hostile enemy don’t generally send out police to try to detain the enemy and engage in trials.

The administration’s position is that Venezuela is a hostile enemy and is engaging in intentional drug trafficking to the U.S. as a matter of their national policy. I would agree that is a hostile act. If Venezuela doesn’t want to experience military action against them, then they should stop trying to smuggle drugs into other countries and instead take action against their own drug traffickers.

Oh, did Congress declare war on Venezuela? I must have missed that.

If the "administration" decided on its own that it is at war with a hostile enemy then these drug boat strikes are certainly not legal military actions if Congress hasn't declared war.

[mike]

Recently 15+ people were arrested (Americans) for 14 pounds of Fentanyl. Should we deny them legal rights because they are drug cartel? Should they be charged as terrorists and locked in Cuba?
Should they be shot on sight?

What if they weren't Americans, does that make it okay?

How do you know these people are guilty by choice? how do you know these people deserve to be shot? As a Christian, I'd not shoot any of them. But if I'm approaching this as a secular position, I would want them to have the same rights I do both because it could easily be me if the tides turn, and also because I believe in treating people according to our laws otherwise... why do we even have laws?
We have our own laws on sea going vessels, we didn't sign the international ones. Does this mean our laws only apply to Americans? does this mean we can on the word of an intel officer (who got us into Iraq for WMD's that didn't exist) that these people are worthy to shoot on sight against our own laws?

To answer your question, nations which decide they are at war with a hostile enemy don’t generally send out police to try to detain the enemy and engage in trials.

The administration’s position is that Venezuela is a hostile enemy and is engaging in intentional drug trafficking to the U.S. as a matter of their national policy. I would agree that is a hostile act. If Venezuela doesn’t want to experience military action against them, then they should stop trying to smuggle drugs into other countries and instead take action against their own drug traffickers.

Oh, did Congress declare war on Venezuela? I must have missed that.

If the "administration" decided on its own that it is at war with a hostile enemy then these drug boat strikes are certainly not legal military actions if Congress hasn't declared war.

Doesn't all this stem from designating drug cartels as terrorists, which apparently unlocks some kind of special permission to engage them with military force, no declaration of war necessary?

[Southerner]

… our grandchildren are running drug boats from Colombia and Venezuela?

Fishing boats.

Is anybody actually claiming they're "fishing boats" anymore?

What does this have to do w the price of beans? They are carrying drugs...Iraq had WMD.