Old Order Amish Splitting 4 Ways

[ohio jones]

Is he an Amish district aligned with the “Old Order English” (the majority group in Holmes Co.)?

I really don't know which Holmes Co. group they relate to.

[JohnH]

Is he an Amish district aligned with the “Old Order English” (the majority group in Holmes Co.)?

I really don't know which Holmes Co. group they relate to.

Chances are that they don't know either, and are probably hoping to postpone finding out as long as possible.

[Ernie]

Today I heard that the Old Order Amish are splitting 4 ways.

What are the new groups' names and differences in outlook/doctrine/practice between them? Are some groups more in some regions than others?

I finally got a report of what is happening in Lancaster County yesterday from an Amishman in the middle of this who seems to have good information.

Traditional Amish (approximately 60 % of Lancaster Amish) The majority are Amish farmers and folks with similar vocations from southern Lancaster County. These folks want to keep the traditional Amish Ordnung and not allow smartphones, skid loaders, and other technological innovations. They want to view the Ordnung as what everyone should do, and not view the Ordnung as a suggestion. These folks are not likely to have cabins in the mountains, and pursue the American dream as much.
Less Traditional Amish but still traditional (approximately 30%) These folks want to view the Ordnung as a suggestion and even adapt the Ordnung to allow smartphones and other technology. These folks are more likely to have cabins in the mountains, etc. This group may divide yet, as there are different elements within this group.

The average personal morals in the above two groups are much the same. The "Eagles", a spiritual youth/family movement with the Amish church that started a couple decades ago is still active. These Eagles can be found in both of the above groups.

The following 4 groups make up the remaining approximate 10%.
The Restoration Amish - These folks are saying they want the Old Amish way of church life like it was in the 1800's where matters are decided congregationally with unanimous voice. However, many are fairly modern with cabins in the mountains, houses in Florida, and technology. So the old life of simplicity is not what they are trying to restore. A new group then came out of this group and use the name, Light of Grace. If you need 100% agreement, then this will likely result in spinoffs, IMO.
Light of Grace folks are open to driving cars if I understood correctly.
Brotherhood Amish - If I got it right, these folks are charting a course similar to the Agape-related group in Allen Co., IN the way it appears, with oversight from that community.
Fellowship Amish - I don't know much about these folks.

I welcome corrections to any of this.

[JohnH]

Ernie,

Do you have any information about the alignments with the various Ohio groups?

For lack of a better term, we are calling the less-traditional groups the "Old Order English". No name has emerged for the more-traditional group other than the "14 districts" since it was 14 churches total, but I don't know if that name has stuck.

[Ernie]

Do you have any information about the alignments with the various Ohio groups?

I do not.

[JayP]

I would generally concur with Ernie’s description of what is going on in Lancaster County. I do not know the four small groups that Je described but I was talking to some Conservative Mennonite ministers about it this week. I am not sure the “stick to the Ordnung” is as high as 60%.

As I have said before I am very worried with where the OOA are right now. The smart phone so destroys what is their culture and lifestyle I am not sure it will survive in any significant numbers. I am not sure the Consevative Mennonites will do much better

[Samuel-Stoltzfus]

Hey Ernie,
Your synopsis is very good, and gives a very good overall picture.
The brotherhood group split off of the Fellowship group, this happened earlier this year or maybe last fall already. It is my understanding that the Brotherhood group is getting a lot of support and teaching from Barry Grant directly (he has been in PA preaching and baptizing at their meetings) and the Shelbyville group, not so much from Agape. Although obviously there may likely be some connections there.
From what I understand there are numerous groups or factions beyond those 4 that you mentioned. I forget all the names of all the groups I've heard of, but it is upwards of 7-10 groups in Lancaster County alone that I am aware of. Basically whenever a district or a group of people doesn't like the options, they just go and create their own brand or church.
Even the "daughter settlements" are doing the same thing. For example, the Lancaster Amish settlement in NY state has several factions represented there that are not officially a part of any of the factions in Lancaster County, likewise with Virginia, and other places I would assume.
From what I see it seems like all one big boiling pot right now, may the Lord use this to draw people closer to himself and may he bring peace in people's lives

[Ernie]

The brotherhood group split off of the Fellowship group,

Do you know on what issues they differed and what can you tell us about the Fellowship group.

Are the other groups you mention smaller than the 4 that I mentioned?

What size are each of the four I mentioned?

[JohnH]

As I have said before I am very worried with where the OOA are right now. The smart phone so destroys what is their culture and lifestyle I am not sure it will survive in any significant numbers. I am not sure the Consevative Mennonites will do much better

Sure they will - the groups that reject smartphones will survive just fine. There certainly are enough of them.

From what I hear, the new Spencer, TN-type settlement and the Scottsville, TN-type Hoovers are feeling very comfortable with each other; this builds upon the comfort level the Scottsville group already feels with certain Swartzentrubers. Overall, a coalition is emerging that rejects smartphones, e-bikes, and making frequent use of drivers.

Likewise the "14 districts" who rejected smartphones in Ohio feel aligned with the New Orders who also don't use smartphones. As I understand it, nobody really cares at all about things like Sunday school, etc. - the smartphone issue is far more pivotal.

[temporal1]

As I have said before I am very worried with where the OOA are right now. The smart phone so destroys what is their culture and lifestyle I am not sure it will survive in any significant numbers. I am not sure the Consevative Mennonites will do much better

Sure they will - the groups that reject smartphones will survive just fine. There certainly are enough of them.

From what I hear, the new Spencer, TN-type settlement and the Scottsville, TN-type Hoovers are feeling very comfortable with each other; this builds upon the comfort level the Scottsville group already feels with certain Swartzentrubers. Overall, a coalition is emerging that rejects smartphones, e-bikes, and making frequent use of drivers.

Likewise the "14 districts" who rejected smartphones in Ohio feel aligned with the New Orders who also don't use smartphones. As I understand it, nobody really cares at all about things like Sunday school, etc. - the smartphone issue is far more pivotal.

“Enough is as good as a feast.”

i’m baffled “the whole world” doesn’t have the sense to abandon smartphones.
That is, stand-alone basic phones without computers/cameras serve a valid purpose.
Cameras and computers as separate devices, fine.

i hope the Amish and all those who break from smartphones find themselves leading.

Reports of various types of legislation AND various school policies restricting tech from students-minors,
suggests not all have lost their minds.

i don’t buy the notion, “once they have it, there’s no going back.”

Not true.
There are many examples of serious restrictions effectively put n place AFTER the fact.

No brakes before wheels.
No stop signs before the advent of cars.
No seat belts or car seats before cars.
No drinking laws before the advent of alcohol.
No smoking restrictions before tobacco use - esp after admission of lung cancer.

Certainly, profiteers fight it. Smoking/lung cancer is a specially ugly example of that.

There IS “going back.”
It’s far more common than is convenient (for profiteers).

.. may the Lord use this to draw people closer to himself and may he bring peace in people's lives