Venezuela 2025

[barnhart]

I echo the concern of Soloist and boot. I don't know what is really going on but it doesn't look good. And I do not trust the honesty or transparency of the administration to report on it.

[temporal1]

Not a typical drug strike that we’re accustomed to, i.e., for show, deliberately ineffective. Everyone goes back to business as usual. Nothing changes.

The SA cartels run SA governments (they’re ‘way too influential in U.S. gov) - T isn’t inclined to “play footsie” like career politicians in my lifetime, costing lives, achieving nothing. Drugs flow, cash flows. People die.

So. i don’t know. For sure i don’t. i wonder.

Putin seems to relish .. himself.

If the government is actively involved in drugs and smuggling, either declare war to fix the problem, use economic pressure to change the problem, but don’t break military engagement rules to attack civilians without demanding surrender/heave to for inspection. Don’t bomb sovereign nations without declarations of war.

These actions are no different then the other great (in terms of power) nations but they are a violation of the laws of our land, violation of military rules of engagement, and violation of a nation’s sovereignty for claimed casus belli which is a stretch.
And where is the coast guard? Why are they not the ones running this?

Drug runners use these boats, swap to fishing boats and smuggle it in. In international waters there are specific laws agreed on by most maritime powers that are supposed to be followed, we didn’t agree. Within another nations waters, we are outside our own ship, expected to respect the nation’s laws in regards to their water ways.
The coast guard can stop any vessel in our waters without cause for inspection. A ship failing to respond can be shot.

Unflagged vessels are claimed to be under our jurisdiction, okay fine. What is the route laid out? 1: Call for heave to for inspection.
2: warning shot
3: disabling shot and armed boarders
4: lethal shots which hasn’t happened against smuggling since perhaps we used sailing ships.

i really really don’t know about military actions.

i perceive the drug cartels are extremely bad and are doing untold damage in the U.S.
Also, from reports all my life, they are thoroughly unscrupulous and kill with impunity at will.
i don’t see it as an “undeveloped country” problem - like i did for much of my life.
i believe they are all mixed up in the U.S., from “the streets” to Wall Street and Congress.

So. i’m waiting to judge. For sure, they will exploit U.S. courts to the max. They are or have well educated representatives, in and out of prison. “Business” doesn’t stop due to being behind bars.

i’m stunned for anyone who dares attempt to go into these dark evil places. They are risking their lives and the lives of their loved ones - and all our lives, quite frankly. These people have proven how ugly+evil they are in other countries.

i don’t know.

In the 70’s, i knew the Dean of the College of Ag, U of Vermont.
He traveled regularly to Colombia, which was a major hot spot in those years.
He said he+his family saw so much violence in streets, no one would believe what they saw.

i wouldn’t begin to know where or how to start. i have to pray for any who would try. for their safety and wisdom.

[temporal1]

I echo the concern of Soloist and boot. I don't know what is really going on but it doesn't look good. And I do not trust the honesty or transparency of the administration to report on it.

i would add, no gov admin reports openly about military actions. ever. this one is not unique in that way.
this one MAY be unique in aiming for results, not protracted, deadly, cost-ignoring military action.

i’m really fed up with deadly pointless protracted wars that cause so much death - to those on the bottom.
military and civilian.

i grieve for all loss of human life, even osama bin laden, even putin, in the event.
i’m not in any way a “hawk” - as i’ve lived, i realize there are things i’ll never understand, things i’m incapable of doing, the ways governments work. and more. i recognize some are able in ways i’m not. i pray for them, esp their safety, wisdom, conversion.

God uses all for His purposes, i trust in Him.

[Ernie]

I echo the concern of Soloist and boot. I don't know what is really going on but it doesn't look good. And I do not trust the honesty or transparency of the administration to report on it.

The majority of Americans seem to feel similarly, regardless of who is in power the last while. I think it comes from electing people based on demagoguery rather than on competence and principled governance.

[mike]

I echo the concern of Soloist and boot. I don't know what is really going on but it doesn't look good. And I do not trust the honesty or transparency of the administration to report on it.

The majority of Americans seem to feel similarly, regardless of who is in power the last while. I think it comes from electing people based on demagoguery rather than on competence and principled governance.

Trump is now being transparent enough to say that they are planning land action in Venezuela.

[Soloist]

i perceive the drug cartels are extremely bad and are doing untold damage in the U.S.
Also, from reports all my life, they are thoroughly unscrupulous and kill with impunity at will.
i don’t see it as an “undeveloped country” problem - like i did for much of my life.
i believe they are all mixed up in the U.S., from “the streets” to Wall Street and Congress.

So. i’m waiting to judge. For sure, they will exploit U.S. courts to the max. They are or have well educated representatives, in and out of prison. “Business” doesn’t stop due to being behind bars.

Recently 15+ people were arrested (Americans) for 14 pounds of Fentanyl. Should we deny them legal rights because they are drug cartel? Should they be charged as terrorists and locked in Cuba?
Should they be shot on sight?

What if they weren't Americans, does that make it okay?

How do you know these people are guilty by choice? how do you know these people deserve to be shot? As a Christian, I'd not shoot any of them. But if I'm approaching this as a secular position, I would want them to have the same rights I do both because it could easily be me if the tides turn, and also because I believe in treating people according to our laws otherwise... why do we even have laws?
We have our own laws on sea going vessels, we didn't sign the international ones. Does this mean our laws only apply to Americans? does this mean we can on the word of an intel officer (who got us into Iraq for WMD's that didn't exist) that these people are worthy to shoot on sight against our own laws?

[JohnH]

i perceive the drug cartels are extremely bad and are doing untold damage in the U.S.
Also, from reports all my life, they are thoroughly unscrupulous and kill with impunity at will.
i don’t see it as an “undeveloped country” problem - like i did for much of my life.
i believe they are all mixed up in the U.S., from “the streets” to Wall Street and Congress.

So. i’m waiting to judge. For sure, they will exploit U.S. courts to the max. They are or have well educated representatives, in and out of prison. “Business” doesn’t stop due to being behind bars.

Recently 15+ people were arrested (Americans) for 14 pounds of Fentanyl. Should we deny them legal rights because they are drug cartel? Should they be charged as terrorists and locked in Cuba?
Should they be shot on sight?

What if they weren't Americans, does that make it okay?

How do you know these people are guilty by choice? how do you know these people deserve to be shot? As a Christian, I'd not shoot any of them. But if I'm approaching this as a secular position, I would want them to have the same rights I do both because it could easily be me if the tides turn, and also because I believe in treating people according to our laws otherwise... why do we even have laws?
We have our own laws on sea going vessels, we didn't sign the international ones. Does this mean our laws only apply to Americans? does this mean we can on the word of an intel officer (who got us into Iraq for WMD's that didn't exist) that these people are worthy to shoot on sight against our own laws?

To answer your question, nations which decide they are at war with a hostile enemy don’t generally send out police to try to detain the enemy and engage in trials.

The administration’s position is that Venezuela is a hostile enemy and is engaging in intentional drug trafficking to the U.S. as a matter of their national policy. I would agree that is a hostile act. If Venezuela doesn’t want to experience military action against them, then they should stop trying to smuggle drugs into other countries and instead take action against their own drug traffickers.

[Southerner]

i perceive the drug cartels are extremely bad and are doing untold damage in the U.S.
Also, from reports all my life, they are thoroughly unscrupulous and kill with impunity at will.
i don’t see it as an “undeveloped country” problem - like i did for much of my life.
i believe they are all mixed up in the U.S., from “the streets” to Wall Street and Congress.

So. i’m waiting to judge. For sure, they will exploit U.S. courts to the max. They are or have well educated representatives, in and out of prison. “Business” doesn’t stop due to being behind bars.

Recently 15+ people were arrested (Americans) for 14 pounds of Fentanyl. Should we deny them legal rights because they are drug cartel? Should they be charged as terrorists and locked in Cuba?
Should they be shot on sight?

What if they weren't Americans, does that make it okay?

How do you know these people are guilty by choice? how do you know these people deserve to be shot? As a Christian, I'd not shoot any of them. But if I'm approaching this as a secular position, I would want them to have the same rights I do both because it could easily be me if the tides turn, and also because I believe in treating people according to our laws otherwise... why do we even have laws?
We have our own laws on sea going vessels, we didn't sign the international ones. Does this mean our laws only apply to Americans? does this mean we can on the word of an intel officer (who got us into Iraq for WMD's that didn't exist) that these people are worthy to shoot on sight against our own laws?

To answer your question, nations which decide they are at war with a hostile enemy don’t generally send out police to try to detain the enemy and engage in trials.

The administration’s position is that Venezuela is a hostile enemy and is engaging in intentional drug trafficking to the U.S. as a matter of their national policy. I would agree that is a hostile act. If Venezuela doesn’t want to experience military action against them, then they should stop trying to smuggle drugs into other countries and instead take action against their own drug traffickers.

"Smuggling drugs into other countries". How do you know that this is happening?

I remember when Iraq had "weapons of mass destruction".

[JohnH]

"Smuggling drugs into other countries". How do you know that this is happening?

I don’t know everything in the world firsthand for sure. The newspapers who reported on the drug boats all affirmed they were indeed smuggling drugs, though. The question at hand is whether it’s okay to simply attack the vessels versus some kind of police action.

[Southerner]

"Smuggling drugs into other countries". How do you know that this is happening?

I don’t know everything in the world firsthand for sure. The newspapers who reported on the drug boats all affirmed they were indeed smuggling drugs, though. The question at hand is whether it’s okay to simply attack the vessels versus some kind of police action.

And the newspapers all reported that Iraq had WMD!