Is faith supposed to judge politics?

[barnhart]

There is a challenge that there is politics in church too. Just using the term politics may be too broad. Which politics?

That is the question. I suspect the range of what rightfully should be called "politics" is broader than we want to admit. It certainly goes further than voting every four years or supporting a party determined to control government. It should include all the ways we interact with society, where we live, what we eat, the subscriptions we pay for, what we click on, how and what we drive and many more similar things.

It's easy to peer into the past and judge how the living choices of others impacted their society. For example we can clearly see the greed of gold prospectors drove the Lakota from their home but it is much harder to see how our own greed impacts the world around us. This too is political.

[Bootstrap]

To say that all "politics" is worldly and is separate from faith is to adopt the feeble Evangelical model of Christianity, where we say a sinner's prayer and then show up to church every Sunday.

I grew up in Evangelical circles where the basic Gospel was "pray this prayer and vote Republican".

It's easy to critique someone elses' practice or theology but the error I see here is to sequester the reign or authority of Jesus into a rigid box of the immaterial spirit world. It's a sort of neo-gnosticism that holds the world of matter and atoms distinct and under different rules of engagement than the world of the spirit where Jesus is King and has the unquestioned authority to save your soul. The material Evangelical world must not only fight cultural and political battles but win them to advance the authority of Jesus in the material world.

I agree with P+T it a feeble model of reality because it reduces the authority and effectiveness of Jesus to the limited set called the spirit world. King Jesus reigns over the material world already and will vanquish all the hosts of night in his own timetable. There is no emergency, no need to compromise, we need only to announce and live the kingdom, not create it. If you wish to vote while living the kingdom, I am not troubled. That is not the issue but I would warn the gravitational pull of putting confidence in that type of solution will influence your trajectory.

I had to read this a few times before I understood it. But I agree completely.

Jesus’ authority is not limited to some invisible spiritual realm. He already reigns over the physical world. We don’t need to panic or try to build His kingdom ourselves, we only need to live it and proclaim it. Politics is not "more real" than the Kingdom of God, it is not the place where all the real action happens.

Putting our trust in politics, parties, or personalities pulls our heart off course. Basing our identity in politics, parties, or personalities pulls our heart off course.

[Bootstrap]

There is a challenge that there is politics in church too. Just using the term politics may be too broad. Which politics?

That is the question. I suspect the range of what rightfully should be called "politics" is broader than we want to admit. It certainly goes further than voting every four years or supporting a party determined to control government. It should include all the ways we interact with society, where we live, what we eat, the subscriptions we pay for, what we click on, how and what we drive and many more similar things.

It's easy to peer into the past and judge how the living choices of others impacted their society. For example we can clearly see the greed of gold prospectors drove the Lakota from their home but it is much harder to see how our own greed impacts the world around us. This too is political.

I agree.

Some people act like politics only happens when you vote. But politics is broader than that. It shows up in everyday loyalties, identities, and habits:

• Politics (loyalty / allegiance): We Mennonites won’t hang flags in our churches, but we still get pulled into trusting political figures as if they will save us. We nod along when “our side” speaks, even if it doesn’t sound much like Jesus.
• Politics (identity / culture war): We may not march in parades, but we fight the same culture wars. We frame every issue as left vs. right, red vs. blue, us vs. them. Sometimes we spend more time trading in conspiracy theories or memes than in seeking God’s wisdom together.
• Politics (public life / common good): Every day we make choices that shape our shared life. Do we drive like people in a hurry, or like people who value patience and safety? Do we think about whether our purchases support fairness and justice, or only about price and convenience? Do we show up for our neighbors, or withdraw into our own comfort zones?

All of this is political. History makes it obvious how greed and power harmed others, but it’s harder to see how our own choices today—what we buy, what we click on, who we trust—are shaping the world around us. That too is politics.

Jesus already reigns over the real, physical world. Politics is not “more real” than His kingdom. When we put our trust or our identity in political tribes or culture-war battles, our hearts are pulled off course. The question isn’t whether we are political—it’s whether our politics flow from loyalty to Christ or from loyalty to something else.

[JoyE]

To say that all "politics" is worldly and is separate from faith is to adopt the feeble Evangelical model of Christianity, where we say a sinner's prayer and then show up to church every Sunday.

I grew up in Evangelical circles where the basic Gospel was "pray this prayer and vote Republican".

You are exaggerating on purpose, right? I've never heard anything like that.

[Valerie]

To say that all "politics" is worldly and is separate from faith is to adopt the feeble Evangelical model of Christianity, where we say a sinner's prayer and then show up to church every Sunday.

I grew up in Evangelical circles where the basic Gospel was "pray this prayer and vote Republican".

You are exaggerating on purpose, right? I've never heard anything like that.

Possibly because you have only gone to Evangelical churches for only 70 plus years? Maybe it happened on a rare Sunday you missed? I never heard it either, going to Evangelicsl/Pentecost/Charismatic churches over 50 years.

[Bootstrap]

To say that all "politics" is worldly and is separate from faith is to adopt the feeble Evangelical model of Christianity, where we say a sinner's prayer and then show up to church every Sunday.

I grew up in Evangelical circles where the basic Gospel was "pray this prayer and vote Republican".

You are exaggerating on purpose, right? I've never heard anything like that.

Yeah, I don’t mean it literally. B

ut evangelism was mostly about getting people to pray the sinner's prayer, and supporting the Republican party was one of the major themes at the time of Reagan and after. I bought into it, too - I ran for precinct delegate as a Republican back in that time. Political involvement was seen as a major sign of living out the Christian life.

[JohnH]

Yeah, I don’t mean it literally. B

ut evangelism was mostly about getting people to pray the sinner's prayer, and supporting the Republican party was one of the major themes at the time of Reagan and after. I bought into it, too - I ran for precinct delegate as a Republican back in that time. Political involvement was seen as a major sign of living out the Christian life.

Boot, my exposure to evnagelicalism is that supporting the Republican party is not really centered at all - although opposing abortion, supporting laws against abortion or gay marriage, etc., often are.

It is coincidence that the Republican party sometimes supports these causes. If the Democrats wanted to support life and support pro-life causes, they'd find a lot more evangelicals very interested in supporting them.

[Bootstrap]

Yeah, I don’t mean it literally. But evangelism was mostly about getting people to pray the sinner's prayer, and supporting the Republican party was one of the major themes at the time of Reagan and after. I bought into it, too - I ran for precinct delegate as a Republican back in that time. Political involvement was seen as a major sign of living out the Christian life.

Boot, my exposure to evnagelicalism is that supporting the Republican party is not really centered at all - although opposing abortion, supporting laws against abortion or gay marriage, etc., often are.

It is coincidence that the Republican party sometimes supports these causes. If the Democrats wanted to support life and support pro-life causes, they'd find a lot more evangelicals very interested in supporting them.

Since the 1980s, “white evangelical Protestant” has become a standard political category in political surveys because of consistent Republican alignment (75–80% since 2004).

But many who identify as evangelical in polls don’t attend church or hold orthodox beliefs. So “evangelical” is often mostly as a cultural or political identity. That's very different than it was in the time before Reagan.

[JohnH]

Since the 1980s, “white evangelical Protestant” has become a standard political category in political surveys because of consistent Republican alignment (75–80% since 2004).

Is there something wrong with that?

Nonetheless, here is a counterexample:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/church-jo ... h-1b-visas

Someone has an opinion on American non-immigrant visa programs. Their church excommunicates them for expressing this opinion. Apparently, at that church, in order to be a member in good standing you must hold a political position that is pro-H1-B visas.

[Bootstrap]

Since the 1980s, “white evangelical Protestant” has become a standard political category in political surveys because of consistent Republican alignment (75–80% since 2004).

Is there something wrong with that?

By itself, no. The problem is the second part:

But many who identify as evangelical in polls don’t attend church or hold orthodox beliefs. So “evangelical” is often mostly as a cultural or political identity. That's very different than it was in the time before Reagan.

If you made a list of the things that are most important to Seek First for the Kingdom of God, I don't think either political party is on board. And often, political identities and issues take the place of Christian ones. We lose our identity and our world view by adopting the identity and world view of political factions.

Nonetheless, here is a counterexample:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/church-jo ... h-1b-visas

Someone has an opinion on American non-immigrant visa programs. Their church excommunicates them for expressing this opinion. Apparently, at that church, in order to be a member in good standing you must hold a political position that is pro-H1-B visas.

Maybe, but this is a political culture wars source, we can't see the original tweet, and we don't have the perspective of the Baptist church elders. I imagine some of us have been part of churches where someone left or was kicked out, and their stories did not resemble any reality we were aware of. There's zero evidence besides the say-so of someone who is very aggrieved.

According to the Blaze article:

When asked how serious this offense was, the elders told Keene he was on “the path of discipline,” meaning he would be removed from membership if he continued on his present course, he explained. Keene described the removal process as a very serious step in a Baptist church.

They are “basically saying, ‘We don't think you’re a Christian any more because you haven't repented of a sin,'” he said.

So we have a member of a church going to a political culture wars site and asking them to put the church on trial. From a 1 Corinthians 6 perspective, that kind of stinks.

1 Corinthians 6:

6 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers!

7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Are we asking The Blaze to judge disputes in our churches? And when The Blaze weighs in, are Christians supposed to pile on?