Is faith supposed to judge politics?

[Bootstrap]

If you are a Kingdom Christian, it is an unavoidable reality that the gospel is, at it's very core, a political message.

This is both (1) a reason to avoid worldly political parties and secular power, and (2) a reason that Christian can never refrain from their political witness.

To say that all "politics" is worldly and is seperate from faith is to adopt the feeble Evangelical model of Christianity, where we say a sinner's prayer and then show up to church every Sunday. If we ar Kingdom Christians, then we base all our choices (how we dress, how/who we interact with, what work and hobbies we take on, etc.) on the central fact of our existence: the VERY political statement that Jesus is Lord.

Repent ye, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Could you please define "political" and "political message" as used in the text above? I suspect people mean different things by these words, and that makes it easy to misunderstand each other.

[Bootstrap]

To say that all "politics" is worldly and is separate from faith is to adopt the feeble Evangelical model of Christianity, where we say a sinner's prayer and then show up to church every Sunday.

I grew up in Evangelical circles where the basic Gospel was "pray this prayer and vote Republican".

[Bootstrap]

Can we be detached enough from both conservative and liberal politics to be Separated Unto God? As P+T notes, this is a political statement, but measured on a different axis than the world uses.

I think it helps to distinguish some of the things we mean when we use that term:

• Politics (loyalty / allegiance): earthly powers demanding our devotion, competing with the ultimate allegiance due to Christ.
• Politics (participation / voting): the concrete actions of citizens—casting ballots, supporting candidates, shaping policies.
• Politics (authority / office): the responsibilities and temptations of governing—holding power, making laws, enforcing justice.
• Politics (identity / culture war): the way political tribes form our sense of belonging, identity, and “us vs. them” worldview.
• Politics (public life / common good): the shared ordering of society, pursuing justice and peace in community life.

Are there other senses that should be added to that list?

The first and the last are fairly clear cut. Loyalty and devotion belong to Christ alone. But we also live in common with others: shopping, borrowing books at the library, obeying laws, traveling the same roads, and depending on the same utilities and networks. The original sense of politics (politikē in Greek, from polis = city) was about the life of the city-state: how people order their shared life, pursue justice, and deliberate for the common good. Aristotle defined politics as the highest form of community life because it aimed at the good life together, not just survival. To me, this is very much like “Seek the peace [shalom] of the city where I have sent you into exile, and pray to the LORD on its behalf, for in its peace you will find your peace.” (Jer 29:7)

Maybe Politics (identity / culture war) should be clearer than it is in practice. I think it's closely related to Politics (loyalty / allegiance). If we could all unlearn the vocabulary of culture war and refuse to use it, I think that would be really helpful if we want to be Separated Unto God. If we have to frame every issue in terms of political factions before we can think about it and respond, we're probably working from the wrong framework.

I know people who reject Politics (participation / voting) but practice Politics (identity / culture war) and Politics (loyalty / allegiance) every day.

[JohnL]

If you are a Kingdom Christian, it is an unavoidable reality that the gospel is, at it's very core, a political message.

This is both (1) a reason to avoid worldly political parties and secular power, and (2) a reason that Christian can never refrain from their political witness.

To say that all "politics" is worldly and is seperate from faith is to adopt the feeble Evangelical model of Christianity, where we say a sinner's prayer and then show up to church every Sunday. If we ar Kingdom Christians, then we base all our choices (how we dress, how/who we interact with, what work and hobbies we take on, etc.) on the central fact of our existence: the VERY political statement that Jesus is Lord.

Repent ye, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

I suspect the word "judge" is being used more than one way in the scriptures. For example in the biblical period of the judges there was no formal power structure to ordain them, they were those whose wisdom, moral uprightness and capacity led people to turn to them for leadership in times of crisis.

In the Corinthians passage it could be used in the sense that the existence of a moral person reveals or highlights the perversity around them. I have experienced situations like this when people around me were upset because I carried on doing what was right and the result was they looked bad. The existence of God's people living the values of the kingdom in a crooked world will stand as a judgement on the rest.

I wonder if some of the judging of the world will simply be standing as a witness to the truth by living it.

I see both of these posts creating a pretty accurate summary of the topic. It doesn’t take a lot of words to get the idea across.

[temporal1]

To say that all "politics" is worldly and is separate from faith is to adopt the feeble Evangelical model of Christianity, where we say a sinner's prayer and then show up to church every Sunday.

I grew up in Evangelical circles where the basic Gospel was "pray this prayer and vote Republican".

i swim in deep blue waters, i’m not sure lib churches bother with prayer, it’s just “vote Dem”. or else.

[Robert]

I suspect the word "judge" is being used more than one way in the scriptures. For example in the biblical period of the judges there was no formal power structure to ordain them, they were those whose wisdom, moral uprightness and capacity led people to turn to them for leadership in times of crisis.

In the Corinthians passage it could be used in the sense that the existence of a moral person reveals or highlights the perversity around them. I have experienced situations like this when people around me were upset because I carried on doing what was right and the result was they looked bad. The existence of God's people living the values of the kingdom in a crooked world will stand as a judgement on the rest.

I wonder if some of the judging of the world will simply be standing as a witness to the truth by living it.

I am in this boat, for sure.

There is a challenge that there is politics in church too. Just using the term politics may be too broad. Which politics?

[Valerie]

To say that all "politics" is worldly and is separate from faith is to adopt the feeble Evangelical model of Christianity, where we say a sinner's prayer and then show up to church every Sunday.

I grew up in Evangelical circles where the basic Gospel was "pray this prayer and vote Republican".

I have my heart to Jesus when I was 15. In the height of the Jesus movement, at that time we had come through the crazy chaotic 60s, rebellion, drug culture, sexual revolution were very dominant where I lived in southern CA. Even still I never heard for decades “vote Republican “. I remember when abortion clinics had popped up everywhere, Christians had a strong conviction that “we” had let this happen. Innocent babies killed and grieving hurting mothers ridden with guilt- we believe “the Church” had fallen asleep and let this happen. I never heard politics at the pulpit other than the bus mistake my pastor made of implying Henry Kissinger could be the AntiChrist. It seemed there was a spiritual battle going on within politics. Divorce had been made easy. God as “Creator” had been in my text book as one theory but after 5th grade THAT theory was removed. Children not growing up in Christian homes no longer read that “theory”
My heart I realize is for the “lost” and I see God and His kingdom Scripturally not abandoning government but the government is on His (our Messiah’s) shoulders. I think when our Christianity abandons government innocent lives are hurt, killed, lost-
Now we are at a time where it seems things are coming to a head & there’s a great divide. Children are DO confused even about their gender. I see 2 former employee males coming into the store clearly transition to female. It hurts. It turns my stomach. Laws/courts/politicians promote this- I can never abandon my part & responsibility to try to stop the evil influencing these young both by Christian witness/prayer- and in learning which politicians promote these evil ideas, condone them & allows Satan to use them to deceive young minds. This I recognize as Charlie Kirk’s call & mission for kingdom Christians to care about these young minds. Political leaders had had a lot to do with their atheism & gender confusion. I feel spiritually motivated when I pray & reads my Bible, to make a difference.

[barnhart]

To say that all "politics" is worldly and is separate from faith is to adopt the feeble Evangelical model of Christianity, where we say a sinner's prayer and then show up to church every Sunday.

I grew up in Evangelical circles where the basic Gospel was "pray this prayer and vote Republican".

It's easy to critique someone elses' practice or theology but the error I see here is to sequester the reign or authority of Jesus into a rigid box of the immaterial spirit world. It's a sort of neo-gnosticism that holds the world of matter and atoms distinct and under different rules of engagement than the world of the spirit where Jesus is King and has the unquestioned authority to save your soul. The material Evangelical world must not only fight cultural and political battles but win them to advance the authority of Jesus in the material world.

I agree with P+T it a feeble model of reality because it reduces the authority and effectiveness of Jesus to the limited set called the spirit world. King Jesus reigns over the material world already and will vanquish all the hosts of night in his own timetable. There is no emergency, no need to compromise, we need only to announce and live the kingdom, not create it. If you wish to vote while living the kingdom, I am not troubled. That is not the issue but I would warn the gravitational pull of putting confidence in that type of solution will influence your trajectory.

[barnhart]

Accidental post...

[temporal1]

I suspect the word "judge" is being used more than one way in the scriptures. For example in the biblical period of the judges there was no formal power structure to ordain them, they were those whose wisdom, moral uprightness and capacity led people to turn to them for leadership in times of crisis.

In the Corinthians passage it could be used in the sense that the existence of a moral person reveals or highlights the perversity around them. I have experienced situations like this when people around me were upset because I carried on doing what was right and the result was they looked bad.

The existence of God's people living the values of the kingdom in a crooked world will stand as a judgement on the rest.

I wonder if some of the judging of the world will simply be standing as a witness to the truth by living it.

I am in this boat, for sure.

There is a challenge that there is politics in church too. Just using the term politics may be too broad. Which politics?

i agree, i don’t think so much of the word, “judgment” as simple trust that whatever any of us believes, says, does, with a sincere heart, that is Jesus’ Truth will endure, the rest will vanish. This should be a great comfort. The greatest comfort.

Isaiah 64:6
https://biblehub.com/isaiah/64-6.htm

5You welcome those who gladly do right, who remember Your ways. Surely You were angry, for we sinned.
How can we be saved if we remain in our sins?

6Each of us has become like something unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all wither like a leaf, and our iniquities carry us away like the wind.

7No one calls on Your name or strives to take hold of You.
For You have hidden Your face from us and delivered us into the hand of our iniquity.…

Humility 101
This isn’t directed to the worst of us, but to the best. Unnerving, really.

pray for grace.