Old Order Amish Splitting 4 Ways

[Wesleyb]

A bit farther down the alphabet, Omish is actually a correct, though archaic, spelling.

Lewis Carroll, who wrote Alice in Wonderland, also wrote a poem about a Bmish Boy ...

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/ ... abberwocky

“And hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my Bmish boy!

Too many vopal blades going snickersnack for the bmish boy to be nonresistant.

Vorpal blade, VORPAL. How can you expect to be taken seriously if you can’t spell correctly?

[Szdfan]

Lewis Carroll, who wrote Alice in Wonderland, also wrote a poem about a Bmish Boy ...

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/ ... abberwocky

Too many vopal blades going snickersnack for the bmish boy to be nonresistant.

Vorpal blade, VORPAL. How can you expect to be taken seriously if you can’t spell correctly?

You probably shouldn’t. I’ll go hang my head in shame beneath the Tumtum tree.

[Wesleyb]

Too many vopal blades going snickersnack for the bmish boy to be nonresistant.

Vorpal blade, VORPAL. How can you expect to be taken seriously if you can’t spell correctly?

You probably shouldn’t. I’ll go hang my head in shame beneath the Tumtum tree.

Oh hi. I just came galumphing back and saw you responded. I didn’t mean to be too hard on you and I hope the rest of your day is frabjous.

[Samuel-Stoltzfus]

In regards to the original post in this thread, this is what I've been seeing and gathering from friends and relatives the past few months:
The Lancaster Amish are currently in a split, that is looking like it will go 4 ways (at a minimum). This is specific to Lancaster County and daughter settlements, not Ohio Amish.
According to what I've heard, technology is one of the reasons for the split, although it goes deeper than that.
Some of the group is going to be "New Order", another group is going more plain, the ones that are just staying old order, and then the Fellowship Group. (Very likely that the Fellowship Group will allow cars, etc)
Part of it is along more regional lines, such as the conservative southern Lanco districts not getting along with the more liberal northern Lancaster districts. This is what is gearing up to happen in Lancaster County, but the other settlements are having their splits. Looks like Communities in New York and Virgina are going to split 2 ways, and it will probably affect other communities yet.
Its kinda been boiling for the last few years and coming to a head the last year or so, although the final details are still in the works from the last that I've heard.
It really is a big deal because the Lancaster Amish have not really had any major turmoil since the little split 60 years ago, and this looks line it is much bigger and maybe further reaching then any splinters the Lancaster Anish have ever had... Although there is still people trying to work out peace in all of it, and also people sitting on the fence waiting to see how it shakes out.

[mike]

In regards to the original post in this thread, this is what I've been seeing and gathering from friends and relatives the past few months:
The Lancaster Amish are currently in a split, that is looking like it will go 4 ways (at a minimum). This is specific to Lancaster County and daughter settlements, not Ohio Amish.
According to what I've heard, technology is one of the reasons for the split, although it goes deeper than that.
Some of the group is going to be "New Order", another group is going more plain, the ones that are just staying old order, and then the Fellowship Group. (Very likely that the Fellowship Group will allow cars, etc)
Part of it is along more regional lines, such as the conservative southern Lanco districts not getting along with the more liberal northern Lancaster districts. This is what is gearing up to happen in Lancaster County, but the other settlements are having their splits. Looks like Communities in New York and Virgina are going to split 2 ways, and it will probably affect other communities yet.
Its kinda been boiling for the last few years and coming to a head the last year or so, although the final details are still in the works from the last that I've heard.
It really is a big deal because the Lancaster Amish have not really had any major turmoil since the little split 60 years ago, and this looks line it is much bigger and maybe further reaching then any splinters the Lancaster Anish have ever had... Although there is still people trying to work out peace in all of it, and also people sitting on the fence waiting to see how it shakes out.

There are tons of tensions in Amish life and culture, and have been for a long time. Especially in the Lancaster County Amish, is my point of origin (my parents left when I was 9 years old). Here are a just a few that I have seen.

-The incredible and destructive concept that young people who are not church members are to be expected to live it up in the worst kinds of ways. My parents lived this and wanted something different for their children, which is part of the reason they left. (They did not actually leave voluntarily; they were put out of the church for failing to confess and repent of attending home Bible studies with friends.)

-The idea that when church members are far enough away from home, such as the hunting cabin or the beach or on vacation, entirely different standards apply.

-The idea that many things are forbidden, but are fine to be taken advantage of when owned by a neighbor, such as vehicles and other modern technology.

-The illogical position of adopting of mobile phones while still forbidding land-line telephones inside houses.

-The abundance of wealth displayed in incredibly expensive homes and properties and vacation/hunting properties besides, while still considering themselves of a plain and simple lifestyle.

There are many, many more that could be listed. And there are Amish who are appalled at these inconsistencies and tensions, and who actually do live a plain and simple lifestyle, and have refused many of these encroachments of modern life onto their culture. I have a certain respect for these people, many of whom I know and do business with.

My uncle is a supposed to be a well-known conservative Amish bishop in Lancaster County, and yet I know he has a mobile phone. A few weeks ago, he brought out a group of Amish youth to sing for my dad who is recently a widower. Their singing was modern in a lot of ways and they brought instruments and did a great job of playing and singing a lot of great gospel music. But this whole idea that was on display again is that Amish young people are given a certain permission to dress and act in many non-Amish ways prior to joining the church, getting married, and settling down, with the actual approval of their parents in many ways.

It is entirely obvious why many modern Amish in communities with this mindset simply do not look at life like their grandparents did. They are interested in taking advantage of modern technology, they are affected by the broader culture through their smartphones, and they are not interested in shunning and banning those who leave the Amish church like their parents and grandparents believed and taught. It is not surprising at all that these tensions are finally causing the fabric of the Old Order Amish in Lancaster to tear apart. They have been living with these tensions for generations. Something has to give.

So there are likely going to be clear divisions soon between the Old Order Amish, especially in areas other than Lancaster County, and whatever these new groups represent. It will be interesting to see whether the Old Orders will excommunicate and shun these new groups. If they don't, they make themselves out to be pretty silly for all the people they have excommunicated in the past for leaving, like my parents and countless others over the years. We shall see.

[JohnH]

Over here in Ohio (this is just among the OOA, not the various other groups like the Dan church), shunning / excommunication is about extinct as a practice. Excommunicating someone for breaking church rules takes years, and shunning / the ban is pretty much just a formality. Some people are quite frustrated with this since excommunicating someone even for serious sin can still take a long time, with endless appeals for a board of bishops and then "forum shopping" who those bishops are. Meanwhile, the person under review just does whatever they want. Many ministers, deacons, and bishops feel powerless to lead their flocks.

[ohio jones]

- People that own vehicles (typically leased) and are on a path towards operating them themselves. I'm not sure what we call these, although there is precedent of "car Amish". They would also embrace e-bikes and unrestricted smartphones.

- People that are not fully embracing vehicles, but embrace e-bikes, smartphones without restrictions (you can find some of these people on TikTok, for example), and tolerate young women wearing small hanging type veils when in public.

So apparently a middle-aged Amishman in my local community bought a Tesla. The bishop paid him a visit and was rebuffed. The argument was that It's all-electric; the "only" difference from an e-bike is the number of wheels. We will see how this turns out.

[R7ehr]

- People that own vehicles (typically leased) and are on a path towards operating them themselves. I'm not sure what we call these, although there is precedent of "car Amish". They would also embrace e-bikes and unrestricted smartphones.

- People that are not fully embracing vehicles, but embrace e-bikes, smartphones without restrictions (you can find some of these people on TikTok, for example), and tolerate young women wearing small hanging type veils when in public.

So apparently a middle-aged Amishman in my local community bought a Tesla. The bishop paid him a visit and was rebuffed. The argument was that It's all-electric; the "only" difference from an e-bike is the number of wheels. We will see how this turns out.

Excellent! I’ve been waiting for years to see how the Amish would decide on self driving electric cars, given that they permit using of cars so long as they aren’t driving them, and the fact that they already permit electric scooters and bicycles.

[JohnH]

- People that own vehicles (typically leased) and are on a path towards operating them themselves. I'm not sure what we call these, although there is precedent of "car Amish". They would also embrace e-bikes and unrestricted smartphones.

- People that are not fully embracing vehicles, but embrace e-bikes, smartphones without restrictions (you can find some of these people on TikTok, for example), and tolerate young women wearing small hanging type veils when in public.

So apparently a middle-aged Amishman in my local community bought a Tesla. The bishop paid him a visit and was rebuffed. The argument was that It's all-electric; the "only" difference from an e-bike is the number of wheels. We will see how this turns out.

Is he an Amish district aligned with the “Old Order English” (the majority group in Holmes Co.)?

[JohnH]

- People that own vehicles (typically leased) and are on a path towards operating them themselves. I'm not sure what we call these, although there is precedent of "car Amish". They would also embrace e-bikes and unrestricted smartphones.

- People that are not fully embracing vehicles, but embrace e-bikes, smartphones without restrictions (you can find some of these people on TikTok, for example), and tolerate young women wearing small hanging type veils when in public.

So apparently a middle-aged Amishman in my local community bought a Tesla. The bishop paid him a visit and was rebuffed. The argument was that It's all-electric; the "only" difference from an e-bike is the number of wheels. We will see how this turns out.

Excellent! I’ve been waiting for years to see how the Amish would decide on self driving electric cars, given that they permit using of cars so long as they aren’t driving them, and the fact that they already permit electric scooters and bicycles.

This could be the end of the Beachys.